Contributions - Are we Crazy to Ask?

[medierra]

Well, apparently not...

However, we have seen a lot of posts on news sites and such where people seem to be almost offended by the fact that we're allowing people to donate. The common question is "how the hell can these guys expect me to donate money without even seeing a screenshot or in-game move?!"

The answer, simply put, is that we never expected you to. Although, many people already have. We really didn't believe donations would take off until after we had more to show. Initially we thought that we'd offer a pre-order closer to the end of the project after releasing a trailer or something to that effect. However, over the previous months we continually received emails from fans asking for a way to donate. It occurred to us that contributions could be put to much better use early in the project and that, if fans wanted to contribute, we'd be foolish not to accept their help. So far the money we've collected is modest but it is still enough that we can add a few more assets to the game. Whether donations keep up as they have been or drop off to nothing, I'd already count it as a small a win for the game.

So, the option is now available. If you personally need to see more before you're ready to commit, we totally understand. In fact, we really expect that and we'll be releasing some early media soon. If that isn't enough, hey, we expect that too. We expect that most of our sales will come after release. We're not asking everyone to buy the game now. The option to donate is here for those die-hard fans who wanted to be part of the action. We're just incredibly grateful to all those who have seen fit to help us out with development and make the final release that much better!

[Chameleon]

So you guys are ruffling some feathers? Great! :D :cool:

I take it as a good thing, it means you are doing something different and breaking new ground. It can only help others if someone forges a new path. More power to you.

[deimos]

Crazy to ask? Not in any way. Is a fan crazy to donate without seeing any media? No, if that fan believes it's going to make a difference and help produce something good.

Personally, i do want to see something before i make the final decision. Despite that, i don't believe those screenshots could turn me away from that Legendary package, you'd have to draw something in MS Paint to make that happen.

That's the way i understood it from the get-go; nothing is forced and nothing is expected. I checked the contributions page and thought "why not." Looks like not everyone sees it that way.

Don't worry about it though, if you got fans emailing you about donations before you even got a page up for that, i'd say leave the doomsayers be.

So you guys are ruffling some feathers? Great! :D :cool:

I take it as a good thing, it means you are doing something different and breaking new ground. It can only help others if someone forges a new path. More power to you.

Completely agree. Business models of the past cannot and will not work in the future, i see the internet itself as one big publisher and distributor for games, movies, music etc. The cartels die slowly though.

[Scryer]

Of course you aren't crazy to ask, I think that you guys originally structured them as Pre-orders was pretty good way to stop some of the possible complaints. I think when it does come to a small team of developers this type of model is very effective.

People are generally willing to help out in some way, so that's what you can expect. Especially from those fan's that just want to see you succeed.

[rsy]

All I needed to hear was "spiritual successor to titan quest".

Here is my credit card, have your way with it.

[deimos]

All I needed to hear was "spiritual successor to titan quest".

Here is my credit card, have your way with it.

My thoughts worded perfectly.

[Malpheas]

People are generally willing to help out in some way, so that's what you can expect. Especially from those fan's that just want to see you succeed.


Let them as not interred with the well deserved IL reputation for quality, be nay sayers.

I really like the idea that I can affect the production and help out, rather than sitting here saying "I wonder what I could have done differently." As well, if without producer, then power to you all. I hope you succeed splendidly.

Cheers,

Malph

[Bede]

Money before product is how the 15th/16th C. Renaissance worked :)

[Exodus311]

I pre-ordered the Legendary Edition without blinking an eye. TQ was great and "donating" (aka pre-ordering which I do all the time anyhow) to a company so they can keep their ideas and dreams internally and not have to change what they have for another investor is a great thing.

[medierra]

Money before product is how the 15th/16th C. Renaissance worked :)

Nice, we are totally renaissance men now! Working for our noble patrons! :D

[The Old Farmer]

This is a great idea, it seamed to work well with Mount & Blade, and Stardock is doing a similar idea with Elemental. I think the idea of a down loadable beta or alpha for pre-order is an excellent way to get feed back as well as funding. I was a huge fan of TQ and addons and was pissed that Iron Lore was folded after release. Let's hope with fan support this is a great product.

[Llama8]

I take it as a good thing, it means you are doing something different and breaking new ground. It can only help others if someone forges a new path. More power to you.
In the current economic climate, it's certaily worth a punt (especially if it's additional cashflow to make additional stuff possible, rather than necessary cashflow to make the basic stuff possible).

Here is my credit card, have your way with it.
*cough* Mind if I borrow that? ;)

[Dobster]

All I needed to hear was "spiritual successor to titan quest".

Here is my credit card, have your way with it.

Same here although the credit card is not very healthy this month :D

[jiaco]

Its funny that you say "Are we crazy to ask?"

I sort of felt that we asked you to make it possible and you have merely done that: made it possible.

Nobody should call you crazy if you let the people do what they want.

[zidders]

You guys aren't forcing anyone to donate. I think most of the people who might be offended really have no idea of the community that has developed around the action/rpg genre in general. With so few REALLY good games of this type, I think we can be forgiven for a little rabid fanboi/grrl'ism when it comes to wanting to show support for a group of developers who have given us a game in the past that has provided us with so much enjoyment.

Since when did it become wrong or offensive to show your support for something you believe in? I thought that was a GOOD thing.

Let the haters hate. Most of the things i've read like that just come off as being sour grapes.

[Mochnant]

You guys aren't forcing anyone to donate. <..snip..>

Since when did it become wrong or offensive to show your support for something you believe in? I thought that was a GOOD thing.

If you hung out at the Age of Decadence forum during the time Vince floated the idea of donating money (I believe to a marketing campaign, but essentially just money to a developer to work on a game you believe in), you'd have been surprised by the amount of anger, even if it was just a vocal minority.

It was wise of the devs to consider the issue, and wise of them to actually allow open donations.

[Coridan]

I'm eager to pre-order, I just need to convince the wife...

She likes llamas and rollerskates. Medierra, any way you could release your rough rendition of a llama on rollerskates? I think that would sell her.

Thanks!

[medierra]

I'm eager to pre-order, I just need to convince the wife...

She likes llamas and rollerskates. Medierra, any way you could release your rough rendition of a llama on rollerskates? I think that would sell her.

Thanks!

Would Lollerskates be ok?

[Coridan]

Would Lollerskates be ok?

They'll have to do.

[Phokal]

I donated. With good luck, I look forward to trying out the alpha. Good luck, guys!

[radio_babylon]

All I needed to hear was "spiritual successor to titan quest".

ditto... ive logged literally hundreds (maybe thousands, even... which is kinda sad when i think about it) of hours in TQ, which makes the legendary edition a no-brainer...

[GermanZombie]

I think that this is a great Idea just to see how well it really works, because you hear alot of bad things about publishers, and any system that keeps the control in the hands of the developers is a good system in my book.

[karmacappa]

"Vote with your pocketbook."

This is one of the phrases that get tossed around that doesn't really work. Why doesn't it work? Because it's just not the way retail gaming works. Hopefully here we have a chance to do just that.

Beware an incoming wall of text.

There are a few things that I just want to say about this topic. First, this is the single most likely way to have a significant vote as to the content of your games. Second, most of the portions of the game industry DO NOT LIKE IT. Third, it truly won't hurt retail. Fourth, many people will translate their own misgivings into a dislike for the idea.

This method of funding is the only way voting with your pocketbook works. In a normal situation, there are many people down the line that take significant portions of the proceeds from a game sale. Retailers love to take huge chunks of cash in return for more/better shelf space, allowing publishers to put up advertising displays, and gracing your product with the illustrious endcap. Publishers will often put up money, but also demand control over the product content and protection, can make unreasonable demands for timed milestones to be met, may strangle the IP if they get their grubby hands on it, and will take large chunks of cash from sales. If you send something to a console, the license holder for that system will take handfuls of money for themselves. All of this and the huge anonymous population that patronizes normal gaming channels means your vote is so watered down, it really doesn't matter. Only with a direct contribution to an independent developer who owns their own IP will actually have meaning. Stripping down the layers means your purchase pays for their salary. They have a direct accountability to you as a consumer and you support them. If you want to support the mainstream channels, go buy a game at your local Best Buy. If you want to support a developer, you need to support their project directly.

Most people in the industry really won't like this model. Retail and publishers are just going to see this as a slap in the face. I can pretty much guarantee you that major outlets won't be terribly interested in carrying this if Crate carries through with a more direct model. Retail likes to think they're special, they want to make scads of money and have people line up outside their holy holy holy stores. While there may be smaller stores that don't exhibit such crass behavior, mainstream retail doesn't really give a damn about developers. Publishers themselves have a certain disconnect. Most of them are suits, they don't play many games nor do they care. It's business to them. They are there to make money, and they don't like it when people try to bypass them. In truth, only the working women/men of the industry, the designers, artists, audio professionals, testers, and perhaps their direct managers, will actively support such a method. Expect the retail/publishers desire that this model fail to be publicly expressed.

This game doesn't truly have the potential to actively hurt anyone. It's geared towards people, not the public. The scale and goals are about quality of the project with a specific amount of resources, not about mass market appeal and bloated budgets. The real question is, will the market they are appealing to come together to support Crate Entertainment?

Last point, I promise. There will be a lot of negative comments about this made. They are not necessarily based on solid fact, but are rather motivated by the personal misgivings of those making them. I've heard people pass judgement saying it's silly or stupid to donate. Perhaps it is for them, but they're not in a position to dictate that for others. At this point, it is an investment. It's like a broad appeal for micro angel investors. Well, not really, since we're taking our returns in "Great Game" instead of "Filthy Lucre". However, the idea is similar. We are taking a risk on a concept and putting up a collectively substantial funding in order that CE has the resources and control to create a worthy product. The most that a critic could say based on facts is that it is risky. They should respect that the decision of contributors has very little to do with the contributors intelligence. We are not paying for a game that isn't made yet, we're voting with our pocketbooks.

[Scryer]

Awesome post Karmacappa! I really enjoyed reading it and I agree, I voted for these guys, I really want these game developers to succeed in this world, and to be honest we need more game developers like these that are willing to listen to their fans and hear about what they have to say.

I think all developers and designers should have a solid idea for the game, but I appreciate very much knowing that we as a fan base have been heard and are being listened to. I'm hoping that with healthy debate we can all help the developers of this game make informed decisions about it's specific aspects.

Cheers!

[Llama8]

That's an interesting & well laid out post Karmacappa, though I disagree with most of it ;) (I agree with the bit about people talking down donations/very-early-pre-orders due to their own concerns/etc rather than society's moral issue with the concept, or something). As you say, if someone wants to pre-order/donate, they can, if they don't, no-one's forcing them to, but that's people for you.

Retailers & publishers aren't intrinsically evil, there's no difference between Retailer A wanting people to come into their store(s) & spend lots of money, Publisher B wanting people to buys lots of whatever it is they're publishing & Developer C wanting people to love their game & buy lots of it. They all have their own agenda (usually focussed on their own financial growth & survival, again, not a bad thing in & of itself), but just because all of those agendas aren't exactly lined up doesn't make the retailers/publishers evil. Publishers & retailers want games to be successful as much as (if not more than) developers, after all, they're putting their own resources (money, shelf-space) behind the project, you might be surprised by the passion that non-devs have for games/gaming.

Having worked at an FMCG (the equivalent of the dev/publisher), if they're anything like the people I worked with, they won't want everyone else to fail, they just want to do better than the other guys/gals in the market & anything that can grow the market is good, though obviously it's best if you are the one doing the market growing.

Also, your post comes across (to me at least) as though you think that devs are martyrs. I don't think they are, they may well be in a hard position & they may well often get the ****y end of the stick when it comes to investment, control of the end product/dev process & the developer/publisher relationship (after all, not everyone's as large as Blizzard & able to dictate their own terms as far as quality, release dates, etc), but hopefully Crate/Grim Dawn can be successful & show that this particular funding model isn't as bad as some people think that it is & bring a bit more balance to the dev/publisher relationship. The publishers may not think so, but I think that this can only be a good thing if it enables more (smaller?) dev's to be able to release innovative interesting games that are financially successful (ie, give a good return on the investment & enable the devs/publishers to make more games in the future). It's good for the devs (more control, better cashflow, better reputation due to higher quality games being released), it's good for publishers/retailers (more sales) & it's good for us gamers (better games, more innovative games that aren't just revised team lists on last year's sports game).

[yerkyerk]

[rant mode](usually focussed on their own financial growth & survival, again, not a bad thing in & of itself)
I actually see that as a really bad thing in and of itself. You'll hardly ever find people so harsh, cold, calculating and completely and solely focussed on their own welfare as a corporation. A corporation is artificial, it has no heart of itself. The consciousness of a company is reflected in its employees. The bigger the company, the less attachment there is to human morale, not necessarily, but this is often the case. This is mostly true for companies with shared stocks, as it's the big shareholders who decide what happens and they usually have no attachment to the company except for profit. They'll force rules and regulations through that hurt a lot of people, but are good for the profit. Not the long-term profit, only the short-term - they'll burn a company down if it's good for their pockets.

Kill people for profit? Not directly, but they will lower the money invested in safety measures where possible. This will statistically inevitably result in more deaths. So yes, they do in fact kill for money.
I don't think they're doing this on purpose though; shareholders have no attachment to the company and don't see what is happening in the company. They just want to see their shares rising in value. It's the business system that brings out the worst in companies.
The only thing restraining a corporation from doing stuff like that is the people working at the company; and their influence is controlled by the size of the company and wether or not the company has a shared stockholder.
Oh, and also getting bad press, which will cause them problems. And that's just another cold calculation; if they can get away with it, they will.

Free market, gotta love it.
[/rant mode]

Anyway, to cut a long story short, while the little man can definetely have a heart for the gaming industry, the big publishers have no interest in products if they're not making big bucks off of it - and can, will and have burned companies to the ground for profit.

[k4llu5]

^couldn't have said it better myself.

[Llama8]

[rant mode]
A corporation is artificial, it has no heart of itself. The consciousness of a company is reflected in its employees.
The reverse is also true though, the consciousness of a company is the sum of what the employees believe, what they do & how they do it. While employees can be "borged" by a company's culture, it's those very same employees who are defining the culture, so if a corporate culture is cold & unforgiving, it'll be due to the employees (most likely the upper management) leading by example.

This is mostly true for companies with shared stocks, as it's the big shareholders who decide what happens and they usually have no attachment to the company except for profit.
Yes, publicly traded companies have additional pressures on them to deliver profitable growth, but of all the publicly traded companies I've worked for (5 in ~10 years) most of them (4) had a positive culture (yes, we want to make a profit, but we're not going to, and don't need to, screw over all & sundry to do it). The only one that didn't have a particularly pleasant culture was American (and full of actuaries/accountants to boot).

Kill people for profit? Not directly, but they will lower the money invested in safety measures where possible. This will statistically inevitably result in more deaths. So yes, they do in fact kill for money.
I don't think they're doing this on purpose though; shareholders have no attachment to the company and don't see what is happening in the company. They just want to see their shares rising in value.
True, but corporate manslaughter is illegal (I think) & if a company's safety measures were found to be sub-standard, they would be fined (at the very least) & the stockmarket wouldn't react very well at all to a company that doesn't make sure that it's employees/consumers/etc are safe.

It's the business system that brings out the worst in companies.
The only thing restraining a corporation from doing stuff like that is the people working at the company
Again, the company is made up of people & the actions of those people determin the culture. so if "the company" is behaving poorly, that says some very bad things about the employees.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, while the little man can definetely have a heart for the gaming industry, the big publishers have no interest in products if they're not making big bucks off of it - and can, will and have burned companies to the ground for profit.
The majority of the people I've worked with since I graduated & started working have been passionate about what they do (though I'm an accountant, so it's hard to tell sometimes, the guys/gals in marketing & sales are much better at being passionate).

[karmacappa]

Retailers & publishers aren't intrinsically evil, there's no difference between Retailer A wanting people to come into their store(s) & spend lots of money, Publisher B wanting people to buys lots of whatever it is they're publishing & Developer C wanting people to love their game & buy lots of it. They all have their own agenda (usually focussed on their own financial growth & survival, again, not a bad thing in & of itself), but just because all of those agendas aren't exactly lined up doesn't make the retailers/publishers evil. Publishers & retailers want games to be successful as much as (if not more than) developers, after all, they're putting their own resources (money, shelf-space) behind the project, you might be surprised by the passion that non-devs have for games/gaming.

Having worked at an FMCG (the equivalent of the dev/publisher), if they're anything like the people I worked with, they won't want everyone else to fail, they just want to do better than the other guys/gals in the market & anything that can grow the market is good, though obviously it's best if you are the one doing the market growing.

Also, your post comes across (to me at least) as though you think that devs are martyrs. I don't think they are, they may well be in a hard position & they may well often get the ****y end of the stick when it comes to investment, control of the end product/dev process & the developer/publisher relationship (after all, not everyone's as large as Blizzard & able to dictate their own terms as far as quality, release dates, etc), but hopefully Crate/Grim Dawn can be successful & show that this particular funding model isn't as bad as some people think that it is & bring a bit more balance to the dev/publisher relationship.

Well, I can say without a doubt that most large retail chains really are INTRINSICALLY EVIL when it comes to games. Having worked with a good publisher (Interplay), and a development company that self published, I guarantee that big retailers don't give a hoot about the gaming industry. Their goal is basically to wring every last cent they can from their customers. The easiest way to do this is to punch the snot out of developers and publishers. They actively try to hinder publishers and developers from creating alternate sources of distribution, and they will break the rules whenever they stand to gain from it. The nature of the beast is intrinsically evil. That's why I only buy from Steam or Impulse nowadays. Having seen first hand the shenanigans that the big guys pull, I guarantee you that they are a necessary evil in the games industry, but still evil in the end.

Publishers are a hit or miss thing. It depends on the case really. There are naturally cases where publishers do well by the developers and community, but there are many where they do harm. I'd say that the only way to really understand the games publishing industry is really to work in it. It's not really all that similar to most other endeavors. The publisher I've worked with had an excellent relationship with their developers and bent over backwards to try to provide them the support they needed to get things shipped in as good condition as possible. However, some of my co-workers over the years have worked for publishers that... weren't motivated in that direction.

[radio_babylon]

there have been a lot of good points made about the industry and the market and funding and so forth, but i think for most people, none of that stuff enters into their thought process... for me, there are games that i know for a fact, beyond a shadow of doubt, im going to buy when they come out. this would be one of those games. since i KNOW that im going to buy it, then theres no reason not to buy it NOW when my money might benefit the development (and me, through getting it faster and maybe of a higher quality)... so, i bought it.

i didnt buy it to make a statement about the way the industry works, or as a gesture of generosity... my contribution was wholly motivated by self-interest... i want another great ARPG. badly. pre-paying should make it more likely i actually GET that great ARPG... certainly it shouldnt hurt my chances. so, ill roll the dice :)

[yerkyerk]

Well, there's the event where you wind up with a lighter wallet and no game, ofcourse :)

But it'll definetely help the game the sooner you donate..

[Malpheas]

In which case, CE nee ILE will be hard pressed to develop a game and have faith in their work again... such is life. Pressure's on them now.

[yerkyerk]

Hm, I think pressure is a rather stressful, anxious and depressing motivator - I don't wish pressure upon anybody. I saw the donation as a donation, I'd be glad if I get the game in return. If not, meh. I've bought Titan Quest 4 times and Immortal Throne 3 times - and the ILE employees didn't get a penny from that, while they did the actual work. That felt kinda wrong. Now I know the money went to them directly (well, part of them), so I have peace with it.

[radio_babylon]

Well, there's the event where you wind up with a lighter wallet and no game, ofcourse :)

But it'll definetely help the game the sooner you donate..

thats why i say i rolled the dice on the legendary edition :) its a gamble, but all things considered, a fairly small one. if my $50-ish wager pays out one tenth the entertainment value i got out of TQ, id consider that to be a big win. and if nothing comes of it at all, well, im only out $50. its not insignificant, but its not the end of the world.

even considering the bad experience ive had with this kind of thing in the past (ill never pre-pay for a stardock product ever again after demigod) im still willing to take a shot... i guess its just the degenerate gambler in me :)

which probably explains why the variable-reward mechanics of ARPGs appeal so strongly to me... hmm...

[Panthro]

Are you crazy? Maybe...

A lot of other indie developers use donations to get themselves started. It sometimes ends up with a product, sometimes not, but if the idea is good it's worth the risk.

I must admit, I didn't think I would donate. I never played Titan Quest, and the website is perhaps a little light at the moment (This will hopefully change when concept art or screenshots are put into the "media" section). However, I just thought I should do my bit, because I like the idea. A good idea can go a long way, with a little help.

Mind you, even the "legendary fan edition" is a measly $48, which is the equivalent of £30 and change for me, so it seems like the final game may be well worth that sort of price.

I wish you guys all the best, and just remember to ignore the doubters! Constructive criticism is always worth listening to, but those that say "it'll never work" are best ignored.

I'd also suggest (if you haven't already) getting in touch with other small developers, to see if they have any advice. Plenty of helpful, friendly people out there.

[MadWasp]

Hey Panthro!

Try TQ:IT and you change your mind. Put every details to max in options menu, and the game visualisation is cool nowadays yet!

TQ:IT gameplay says more than any words...


Are you crazy? Maybe...

A lot of other indie developers use donations to get themselves started. It sometimes ends up with a product, sometimes not, but if the idea is good it's worth the risk.

I must admit, I didn't think I would donate. I never played Titan Quest, and the website is perhaps a little light at the moment (This will hopefully change when concept art or screenshots are put into the "media" section). However, I just thought I should do my bit, because I like the idea. A good idea can go a long way, with a little help.

Mind you, even the "legendary fan edition" is a measly $48, which is the equivalent of £30 and change for me, so it seems like the final game may be well worth that sort of price.

I wish you guys all the best, and just remember to ignore the doubters! Constructive criticism is always worth listening to, but those that say "it'll never work" are best ignored.

I'd also suggest (if you haven't already) getting in touch with other small developers, to see if they have any advice. Plenty of helpful, friendly people out there.

[Malpheas]

But seriously, I have no problems donating. I want to see them succeed because I know what the crew is at least capable of; and they made up a good years worth of playing for me.

[Panthro]

I'll try and find TQ, but not sure where sells it. I had hoped Gamersgate would have it, but no luck. Might have to get it from Amazon or something.

Should also mention, if it wasn't clear from my first post, that I have donated (or rather, pre-ordered!). Seems more than worth the risk.

I would even consider donating more, based on future developments.

[Scryer]

You can get TQ from Steam also.

[MadWasp]

Steam works (cheaper) and if you consider serious then you can get it from amazon
TQ:IT Gold Edition. (the best choice -my pick)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Titan-Quest-GOLD-PC-DVD/dp/B000MMT778/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1264206200&sr=8-1

I'll try and find TQ, but not sure where sells it. I had hoped Gamersgate would have it, but no luck. Might have to get it from Amazon or something.

Should also mention, if it wasn't clear from my first post, that I have donated (or rather, pre-ordered!). Seems more than worth the risk.

I would even consider donating more, based on future developments.

[psisci]

funny that your can call it a donation .....

after knowing the tq forums and the actual people behind the tqit. i am not donating anything , i am just giving them a bit of money so they can live and create ;) my next game.

if i had the money , i would have paid for the whole development. :cry:

but even 48$ is just the amount i would have payed for the game in a store where i live ( bad demand => :furious: ).

good luck
( for both of us, the team and me winning the lottary ;) )

[yerkyerk]

I'll try and find TQ, but not sure where sells it. I had hoped Gamersgate would have it, but no luck. Might have to get it from Amazon or something.

Should also mention, if it wasn't clear from my first post, that I have donated (or rather, pre-ordered!). Seems more than worth the risk.

I would even consider donating more, based on future developments.

I can see TQ plus the expansion on Gamersgate (quite cheap, less than 10 USD);
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-TQPACK/titan-quest-gold-edition-bundle

Perhaps it's regional coding that prevents you from seeing it?
*srhug*

[Panthro]

Heh, I tried the search box and it came up with nothing. Seems it was there all along!

Thanks for the link yerkyerk!

[yerkyerk]

No problem. That game is definetely worth checking out.

[climber]

I don't believe you're crazy to ask. Based off of your previous game Titan Quest and the many many hours and years of fun it provided myself and I'm sure many others we can fork over a few schillings to help you guys out on your new project.

[Scryer]

I have already gotten the legendary edition, but I think I will still donate a little here and there when I'm able to.

I can't let people starve who want to make an awesome game for me.

[Chameleon]

"We're a long, long ways off from those secure servers that we all dream about..."

Out of interest...How much do secure servers cost?

[Zealuu]

If you had not already demonstrated your prowess and flair when it comes to game design, asking for donations at a stage this early might come off as either arrogant or plain desperate. But as it is, you have demonstrated those things - and thus, by virtue of your previous exploits, I have complete faith in your ability to deliver a compelling game experience. I'm more than willing to contribute financially in advance both to help ensure that the end product is the best it can be and to pledge my support, and then pay again upon release to boost the sales figures.

Apologies in advance if someone already said something similar. :)

[yerkyerk]

Heh, it goes to show that the goodwill built up by Titan Quest comes a long way...

[Rhis]

"We're a long, long ways off from those secure servers that we all dream about..."

Out of interest...How much do secure servers cost?

It depends on a lot of factors really; how many players there are, what the bandwidth use is per player, etc. The servers themselves aren't too expensive, but running/maintaining them can be. It's a monthly cost that would require a large reserve of funds to ensure we could keep it going.

[Ironpunta]

Hi Crate,
I loved Titan Quest!
This is certainly the answer I would give to all the people that doubt the game and it's value. Just look at the amount of people who are part of the community; all of them are waiting with impatience for the GRIM DAWN, they believe in the game and your abillities to create a new, incredible and amazing game, without having seen even the smallest image!!

In my opinion it is only logical that we have the needed trust in you, Crate, as you have always had trust in us, the players.

[happylizard]

i trust them and i believe this game will be better than TQ and hope it will sell better that TQ also....

i think release it before D3 is smart, or nobody is going to buy this game after D3 is out.

PS: #51 u mis-spelled their name...dude...............

[Scryer]

I think D3 will make the genre super popular. It doesn't matter when they release, because either they'll get the people that'll pick up Grim Dawn before D3 comes out, or they'll get the people that now love the genre because of D3 and they'll pick up Grim Dawn anyways.

Either way, as long as they don't release the game right when D3 comes out, they'll be fine. Before or after isn't a big deal.

[Ironpunta]

PS: #51 u mis-spelled their name...dude...............

I am sorry, i was so excited about the new ARPG Grim Dawn...:D

[OneEyeRed]

For me, I would normally never donate to a unfinished product like this. There are no guarantees at the end of the day whether or not we will ever see a finished product good intentions or not. However, with that said, I plan on doing my part to help the cause within the next month or two. I have never done this before and its a walk in the dark but I am okay with that.

The amount of passion and effort that went in to TQ is just amazing. Why the game is more of a cult following than a huge success is beyond me. The game deserves far more success. As a hardcore Diablo player from the beginning, I find many things I like more in TQ than I did in the entire Diablo series to date.

If there is any group of individuals that can make this happen, it would be you folks. I am glad to support the cause, not to mention, there are some really cool benefits your tossing in for doing so. I am truly excited about GD and I am trying to spread the word as much as possible. I would love to see a video even if its short.

[Kardiophylax]

This topic is a little old, but recent events have caused me to return to the Grim Dawn site to check on the progress of things. In answer to the question posed by this topic, no, you are not crazy to ask at all. I loved Titan Quest personally, it is the only game in the last few years that I played for six months straight and loved. As soon as I see some more media to indicate this game is in fact moving along, I'll be ready to jump on the "legendary" bandwagon.


The ARPG as a genre has really died off recently, but Torchlight has shown that ARPGs can succeed in the new digital distribution marketplace. Now the elephant in the room is Diablo 3, but recent actions by Blizzard are rubbing me the wrong way. At this point, if Grim Dawn's multiplayer is workable, I'm much more inclined to sway my friends to get it and play with me than D3 when it releases. With the direction Blizzard has been moving, I fully expect Diablo 3 to carry a premium price tag and attempt to extort money from customers in any way possible.

[Rhis]

Yaaar, ebil mods have moved all of the derail on DLC contents here:

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588

[Furycat]

D3 is going to be amazing, but with current patterns (SC2) I wouldn't expect a beta until 2013.

As to contributions, awesome idea. One thing I loved about TQ was the close relationship the devs had with the community - which should stop this from becoming another Hellgate or Sacred2.

[Sasquatch]

I've always felt guilty for not having the chance to support titan quest =/. Now i kinda feel better for having got the pre-order xD haha

[Silversaint]

Hell, I just got my hands on The Legendary Fan Edition of Grim Dawn few days ago. Is that mean I'm crazy also!? :D

Well, I came from Malaysia. Where u can get pirated disk easily around the corner. And my friends always said "Are u nut!? U can get a game at the price of USD $2-3, why u want to spend so much on original?"

It's the choice I make, and u know it's wrong to steal. But do u know pirated is also a way to steal? And it will also cost the developer to earn less or worst!

So Crate Ent, u have my support. :p

[Rhis]

Hell, I just got my hands on The Legendary Fan Edition of Grim Dawn few days ago. Is that mean I'm crazy also!? :D

Well, I came from Malaysia. Where u can get pirated disk easily around the corner. And my friends always said "Are u nut!? U can get a game at the price of USD $2-3, why u want to spend so much on original?"

It's the choice I make, and u know it's wrong to steal. But do u know pirated is also a way to steal? And it will also the developer to earn less or worst!

So Crate Ent, u have my support. :p

Thanks much!

[MadWasp]

ultra small sum +1

Yesss ! :rolleyes:

Every drop needs and counts!

[Sasquatch]

Hell, I just got my hands on The Legendary Fan Edition of Grim Dawn few days ago. Is that mean I'm crazy also!? :D

Well, I came from Malaysia. Where u can get pirated disk easily around the corner. And my friends always said "Are u nut!? U can get a game at the price of USD $2-3, why u want to spend so much on original?"

It's the choice I make, and u know it's wrong to steal. But do u know pirated is also a way to steal? And it will also the developer to earn less or worst!

So Crate Ent, u have my support. :p

Haha, and if you heard about torrents you cut that to 0$ D:, but good games are really worth supporting, specially when the price is ok and they won't take your kidney off for installing it on 2 computers.

[Roland]

Legendary Edition here as well :)

Let's see Legendary group of Dev's, Legendary 1st game (TQ), Legendary New Company, Legendary idea for 2nd game, Legendary name (Grim Dawn), Legendary info and screenshots...

How could there be any other choice?

:cool:

[No Face]

I remember when I first played Titan Quest I just remember thinking to myself: this is point and click done right. Every grievance I had with (the admittedly classic) Diablo 2 had been remedied. The skill/mastery system was BRILLIANT, the action felt solid, the game never felt cheap (I'm looking at you, Duriel), the art was wonderful, the engine was solid, and enemies dropped the weapons they were actually holding (also: BRILLIANT). Titan Quest was as much a leap over Diablo II as Diablo II was over everything else.

I couldn't wait to see the next evolution of the genre. Would it come in the form of Sacred II? Would it be Hellgate: London? Torchlight? I'm still waiting...

Titan Quest is still the pinnacle. Bar none. Even as I type this, the game reinstalls and I can't wait to try out a new character or style.

The creative and technical talent behind Titan Quest has earned my money many times over, so it is with great pride I support you gents by purchasing the legendary fan edition of Grim Dawn. Quite frankly, Blizzard may have the bigger budgets, the bigger team, and all the time in the world, but if I had to pick between your next game (whether it be Grim Dawn, Titan Quest 2, or Black Legion) or Diablo III, I'd pick yours. Cheers.

[Kardiophylax]

Quite frankly, Blizzard may have the bigger budgets, the bigger team, and all the time in the world, but if I had to pick between your next game (whether it be Grim Dawn, Titan Quest 2, or Black Legion) or Diablo III, I'd pick yours. Cheers.

I agree with this statement! ;)

Glad to have you aboard. It is looking like Crate is going to have quite the alpha/beta testing team. Awesome.

[Roland]

I remember when I first played Titan Quest I just remember thinking to myself: this is point and click done right. Every grievance I had with (the admittedly classic) Diablo 2 had been remedied. The skill/mastery system was BRILLIANT, the action felt solid, the game never felt cheap (I'm looking at you, Duriel), the art was wonderful, the engine was solid, and enemies dropped the weapons they were actually holding (also: BRILLIANT). Titan Quest was as much a leap over Diablo II as Diablo II was over everything else.

I couldn't wait to see the next evolution of the genre. Would it come in the form of Sacred II? Would it be Hellgate: London? Torchlight? I'm still waiting...

Titan Quest is still the pinnacle. Bar none. Even as I type this, the game reinstalls and I can't wait to try out a new character or style.

The creative and technical talent behind Titan Quest has earned my money many times over, so it is with great pride I support you gents by purchasing the legendary fan edition of Grim Dawn. Quite frankly, Blizzard may have the bigger budgets, the bigger team, and all the time in the world, but if I had to pick between your next game (whether it be Grim Dawn, Titan Quest 2, or Black Legion) or Diablo III, I'd pick yours. Cheers.

Well said!

Welcome to the party No Face :)

[medierra]

Wow, that is quite an endorsement! I'm humbled by your lofty praise and hope that we can live up to it with another great game.

[deimos]

I second that post completely. Based on experience, i know you guys will deliver nothing less :p

[zidders]

I fully plan on contributing. Unfortunately, due to my crappy finances, I can only really afford to buy maybe one or two games a year, and I have to be REALLY picky about it when I AM able to get a game.

I really...reallyreallyreallyreallyreally think this is going to be one of those games, the ones that make the sacrifice so worth it...but I can't go by screenshots alone :/

My mate and I both talk over spending, and at this point even tho I'd love to get one of the donator packages...I can't. So I'm gonna have to wait for some in game footage.

I really DO want to help...I feel like now is the time to get in on this before I miss out on getting to be in on the alpha. I'm hoping i'm able to get it before the official release...but I just get the feeling i'm not gonna be able to be one of the ones who helped out before it went on sale...and I really want to be.

[Silversaint]

Thanks much!

I'll waiting for a great game to born! :p

Haha, and if you heard about torrents you cut that to 0$ D:, but good games are really worth supporting, specially when the price is ok and they won't take your kidney off for installing it on 2 computers.

I do know torrents. But my local ISP suck! So no point I BT.

I remember when I first played Titan Quest I just remember thinking to myself: this is point and click done right. Every grievance I had with (the admittedly classic) Diablo 2 had been remedied. The skill/mastery system was BRILLIANT, the action felt solid, the game never felt cheap (I'm looking at you, Duriel), the art was wonderful, the engine was solid, and enemies dropped the weapons they were actually holding (also: BRILLIANT). Titan Quest was as much a leap over Diablo II as Diablo II was over everything else.

I couldn't wait to see the next evolution of the genre. Would it come in the form of Sacred II? Would it be Hellgate: London? Torchlight? I'm still waiting...

Titan Quest is still the pinnacle. Bar none. Even as I type this, the game reinstalls and I can't wait to try out a new character or style.

The creative and technical talent behind Titan Quest has earned my money many times over, so it is with great pride I support you gents by purchasing the legendary fan edition of Grim Dawn. Quite frankly, Blizzard may have the bigger budgets, the bigger team, and all the time in the world, but if I had to pick between your next game (whether it be Grim Dawn, Titan Quest 2, or Black Legion) or Diablo III, I'd pick yours. Cheers.

Agree! :cool:

[officerdonnz]

I've plugged for Legendary Fan Edition as well. :) I've been involved with the making of an NWN2 mod (from a writing stand point) so I know making a game isn't easy. And who doesn't like the idea of seeing their name in a game's credits :D

[deimos]

I've plugged for Legendary Fan Edition as well. :) I've been involved with the making of an NWN2 mod (from a writing stand point) so I know making a game isn't easy. And who doesn't like the idea of seeing their name in a game's credits :D

I preordered it recently too, the credits part is fantastic but these guys deserve twice the contributions from TQ alone, i feel like i should buy another GD key to actually get Grim Dawn :) Who knows, if i get my wife suckered into this stuff she might want one too. So far my success has been limited, i only get amused looks when i'm seen sorting through my Vaults :o

I fully plan on contributing. Unfortunately, due to my crappy finances, I can only really afford to buy maybe one or two games a year, and I have to be REALLY picky about it when I AM able to get a game

......

but I just get the feeling i'm not gonna be able to be one of the ones who helped out before it went on sale...and I really want to be.

Don't worry, everyone can contribute in some way. I often find myself short of ideas and sensible feedback, so even though my finances stink too (especially now that i'm out of a job), i thought i'd fork over enough to get this done anyway. And so i did, from my last pay :) I'm sure i will get to see it appreciated and put to good use by Crate.

By the way do most people want their real name or their forum name on the credits?

[Rhis]

By the way do most people want their real name or their forum name on the credits?

If it's any help, more than a few people have used Real Name (Handle), or First "Handle" Last. We may have to standardize things at some point!

[Code187]

cant we PM a person with our forum name + our real name ???

anyway i have nothing to hide

My RL name :

Max Syhler
Denmark

peace to you all.

[deimos]

If it's any help, more than a few people have used Real Name (Handle), or First "Handle" Last. We may have to standardize things at some point!

Thanks, a standard format sounds good. I'll change mine to include both, so you can ultimately arrange it as you see fit.

[eisprinzessin]

cant we PM a person with our forum name + our real name ???
This (http://www.grimdawn.com/setcreditname.php) is what you are looking for - or visit the Order Support thread:
Need to set the name for your credit? (Legendary/Epic orders)
Click here (http://www.grimdawn.com/setcreditname.php).My 400th post :)

[ASYLUM101]

This (http://www.grimdawn.com/setcreditname.php) is what you are looking for - or visit the Order Support thread:
My 400th post :)

About that, are we allowed to put both our online names and real names?

Eg. First name "online nick" Last name?

Like Henry "Billy the Kid" McCarty?

[deimos]

About that, are we allowed to put both our online names and real names?

Eg. First name "online nick" Last name?

Like Henry "Billy the Kid" McCarty?

This is what it says up there ;) ; If it's any help, more than a few people have used Real Name (Handle), or First "Handle" Last. We may have to standardize things at some point!

...i assumed "handle" means forum nick anyways.

[ASYLUM101]

Ah ok, I didn't see that. Maybe they should standardize it, I put First "handle" Last. If the credits roll and you see alternating trends... not gonna be pretty.

[chris01]

agreed....im typing this sentence just to fill up the space so dont read :P

[Lyranaar]

First of all, hi guys, one lurker raising his hand. :)

Loving TQ +1
Loving idea of Grim Dawn +1
Legendary Preorder +1
Looking forward to Alpha/Beta +1
etc. :)

Most things I want to say are posted here by other people anyway.

One thing I'd really like to be able though is to be credited just by handle/nickname (Like the page currently allows you to enter).
In a gaming enviroment I personally think real names are overrated and I like to keep those things just private.

While I have no problem to share this with the Devs eg. I don't like to share this with any datamining bot out there. :)

There are the people who think net privacy is very important to them and those who think they are complicated.

Thanks for considering this in any case!

Oh, btw. can't wait for the game!

Lyranaar

[deimos]

First of all, hi guys, one lurker raising his hand. :)

....

One thing I'd really like to be able though is to be credited just by handle/nickname (Like the page currently allows you to enter).
In a gaming enviroment I personally think real names are overrated and I like to keep those things just private.

While I have no problem to share this with the Devs eg. I don't like to share this with any datamining bot out there. :)

Hey and welcome! :) I thought about this as a privacy concern too.

Over the years i've tried to take great care not to link my online aliases with my real life. Some may call it paranoia but really, to me it's just being careful as much as saving my skin from spam and other annoyances. You can't take this to extremes, otherwise one could never post anything anywhere. I don't use TOR, my IP is visible all around the place screaming my location down to the city i live in and so on...

But giving out real names is like giving phone numbers and street addresses, that information isn't exactly necessary for strangers to know. Still, the developer names are public information too, and all contributors are included in this project at least money-wise, so i don't see it as a privacy threat in this case to have my name up there just like they have theirs :) I even consider that an honor. Besides, you could always include only your name and not your nick, that way they cannot be linked if that's your concern.

Maybe sorting the contributor names by "Real Name (nickname)" and scrolling nicknames only after that would keep it clean enough. The option will surely remain there to exclude real names, for the more private people.

[Rhis]

If you don't want your real name in the credits you don't have to provide it. When I said "we may have to standardize things" what I meant was a common format for everyone who had provided both a real name and a nickname. If you set your credit as just your real name, or just your nickname, that is perfectly fine.

We certainly won't be datamining the payment system to grab everyones real names or anything like that. Anything appearing in the credits will be limited to what you entered on the "set your in game credit" form. We of course reserve the right to edit your entry as appropriate.

[mamba]

One thing I'd really like to be able though is to be credited just by handle/nickname (Like the page currently allows you to enter).
In a gaming enviroment I personally think real names are overrated and I like to keep those things just private.

That is what I did, I just entered the nickname I use here (different places have different nicks). The page did not complain about that, so I would expect my nick to show up in the credits :)

[Lyranaar]

Thanks a lot for clearing that up Rhis!

And thanks for the friendly welcome guys. :)

[Llama8]

We certainly won't be datamining the payment system to grab everyones real names or anything like that.

But that can be sooooooooooo lucrative, er, or so I've heard...

+1 for Legendary (finally). :) Birthday present from my wife.

[heron]

But that can be sooooooooooo lucrative, er, or so I've heard...

+1 for Legendary (finally). :) Birthday present from my wife.

Aww.. that's pretty sweet!

[ws5926]

I run lan parties at my place with 8-14 people on average for about the past 4-5 years. I have 12 networked machines on a gigabit router. We have played the CRAP out of TQIT for a long time.

Is there anyway that I can get some kind of demo of Grim Dawn to help out with testing? I'm sure that the guys that come over would glady provide feedback and fill out any bug reports for a chance to play this game.

Thank you for your time.

[zidders]

Right now, there's no demo, as the game is still in the early development stages...a lot of great work done, im sure (see the screenshot section) but still a ways before alpha.

If your friends are interested, check out the pre-order/contribution section. If you and your friends get the legendary option (before Crate decides that it has enough people for alpha) you get access to the games alpha, tho I can't imagine doing that sort of thing at a LAN party, considering that until open beta, anyone testing the game will be under an NDA, so technically you wouldn't be able to do the LAN thing until the game hit at least open beta and the NDA was lifted.

[ws5926]

Since I own all the machines that we would be playing on, I would think that would still be ok with the NDA. Unless the NDA meant that I couldn't let anyone else play it. I haven't seen the NDA, so I have no idea.

[zidders]

Most NDA's apply to the person agreeing to it, which means that you're the only one supposed to be playing it, and you're not supposed to be telling anyone else about it, or letting anyone else play it, showing it to anyone else, stuff like that. It all depends how the NDA is worded, but something tells me that a bunch of buddies hanging out together at a LAN party isn't going to be something that the dev's have in mind for it's early testing cycles.

And generally, alpha clients don't have activations. You would only be able to install it on one machine, anyways, and unless EVERYone at your LAN party had a legendary account and had access to the alpha, you wouldn't be able to have them over anyways. Something tells me that the whole LAN idea of yours would best wait until the game were released.

[space-time mogul]

@zidders & ws5926:

Additionally I would say that testing an alpha-build would most probably not be the most exhilarating thing to do on a lan-party.
It is just to expect that the game would crash relatively often and would be lacking quite some features that would be needed for it to be real fun for a group of people playing it together.

[dr_bowtie]

I havent read all the pages in this thread but I plan too....

but giving my reply based on the original post...

Giving people the option to contribute is a good thing. We as contributing members get the feeling if being helpful...lending a hand into something we believe in...something we feel that shows the owners we do have an interest in the product....

thats also something that should show Crate and all the people tied to it...the more people who contribute either monetary or via advice int he forums should show you that you ARE moving in the right direction....

a little advice...?

while TQ and TQIT is an awesome game it really needed to be mixed up a bit...the game got rather boring into Epic and you already played thru the game once and by the time you get to Legendary if you finished it you were lucky...you played the exact same game 3 times just on a harder level...

more people would be inclined to play it if one each difficulty something changed that wasnt on the previous...like another map at the end...or slightly different maps and quest on each difficulty...giving you reason to actually play the next difficulty...

I did play thru TQIT a couple times and made it thru Legendary and still have some characters from the beginning but just dont have the interest to get them to epic as I played the game so many times...

even doing different skills and masteries its hard to play for very long and I love the game...

[R3D]

Nice, we are totally renaissance men now! Working for our noble patrons! :D
would that make a pet gargoyle for Legendary fan editions appropriate?

[Ian]

In all the cases I've pre-ordered a game I have never had a problem in fact I have a few still on now ranging from 1 hour to 4 years :D

[Vighorus]

I think its a good idea to allow people to donate should they want to. It's their money right so you have no say on what they spend it on.

I bought the legendary pack today (thought it was called epic but i was wrong)
My money, my choice. I think it's great to offer this pre-pre-order, it shows the devs really want to make a GREAT GAME FOR THEIR FANS!

Supporting any game / dev team you feel worthy of your money is always a good idea. I'm trying to get my friends to pre-pre-order the game too.

[Radnen]

I think its a good idea to allow people to donate should they want to. It's their money right so you have no say on what they spend it on.

I bought the legendary pack today (thought it was called epic but i was wrong)
My money, my choice. I think it's great to offer this pre-pre-order, it shows the devs really want to make a GREAT GAME FOR THEIR FANS!

Supporting any game / dev team you feel worthy of your money is always a good idea. I'm trying to get my friends to pre-pre-order the game too.

What happen if the dev team goes bankrupt and there is no contingency plan to get your money back? This is what I fear the most.

[mamba]

What happen if the dev team goes bankrupt and there is no contingency plan to get your money back? This is what I fear the most.

There is no contingency plan. If the game never gets released, your money is lost.

Quite frankly, if you worry about your money, don't go for the deal. I bought a copy because I enjoyed TQ immensely and wanted to support Crate.

If for whatever reason the game does not get released (which afaik is highly unlikely), having wasted a few bucks is the least problem I have with that ;)

[R3D]

people blow that much on a movie and walk out, or on fast food, or on a t shirt that gets ruined first time worn. its $50 to any one in a western nation its not allot of money. if you have a bad exchange or it is a lot for you (like allot of Asian and eastern European) then wait till its almost guaranteed if you want if you want to get it but it will be a large chunk of your cash.

[Radnen]

$50 to any one in a western nation its not allot of money.

I would strongly disagree, but whatever. I'm very conservative with my money habits - that's all (given there is a global recession).

[Vighorus]

50$ for me is a bit of money. I am not rich but I read the info about how if the game / comp goes under I dont get my money back...oh well if it happens it happens.

The way I see it, my 50$ is a boost to the comp / game. I always look to the positive. I am faithful the game will release. :)

[R3D]

i mean relatively of coarse as i still have to work 2.4 hrs to get $50 but i have wasted heaps more than that on less = bloodbowl

[Llama8]

its $50 to any one in a western nation its not allot of money.

Not necessarily, the average European salary (in 2006) is 31k Euros, assuming 8 hours a day, 5 days a week & 52 weeks per year (ie, holidays included), that gives ~15 Euros per hour = ~$19 per hour (pre tax, NI, etc). If tax & NI are ~26% (which is what it would have been in the UK for that year), that's ~$14 per hour, which would be about 4 hours work for a $50 game. Though that's assuming you don't have an expensive mortgage/rent or childcare (which is hideously expensive in the UK ~1k per month for 5 days a week 8am-6pm in Surrey).

[commando450]

the quote below, this is exactly how i and im sure many feel, i was gona type something similar but you beat me to it :p

I remember when I first played Titan Quest I just remember thinking to myself: this is point and click done right. Every grievance I had with (the admittedly classic) Diablo 2 had been remedied. The skill/mastery system was BRILLIANT, the action felt solid, the game never felt cheap (I'm looking at you, Duriel), the art was wonderful, the engine was solid, and enemies dropped the weapons they were actually holding (also: BRILLIANT). Titan Quest was as much a leap over Diablo II as Diablo II was over everything else.

I couldn't wait to see the next evolution of the genre. Would it come in the form of Sacred II? Would it be Hellgate: London? Torchlight? I'm still waiting...

Titan Quest is still the pinnacle. Bar none. Even as I type this, the game reinstalls and I can't wait to try out a new character or style.

The creative and technical talent behind Titan Quest has earned my money many times over, so it is with great pride I support you gents by purchasing the legendary fan edition of Grim Dawn. Quite frankly, Blizzard may have the bigger budgets, the bigger team, and all the time in the world, but if I had to pick between your next game (whether it be Grim Dawn, Titan Quest 2, or Black Legion) or Diablo III, I'd pick yours. Cheers.

[Wamplet]

Just wanted to say that i really like the contribution/pre-order system.

[irk]

anyone know how many preorders have sold so far?

the quote below, this is exactly how i and im sure many feel, i was gona type something similar but you beat me to it :p

seriously,and the game is sooooo cheap, $20 for normal, I feel like its too cheap, $30 at at least even for a direct download imo.

[Refried]

The only thing keeping me from diving in is the classes. I've simply been waiting to see the classes in action and learn more about them in depth. Is it going to be the 60 something combinations like Titan Quest was, or is it going to be linear? What type of skill trees are we talking about?
Once I know this, I'll have the card ready.:)

[thefly]

Just heard about this game from Wamplet at the old 3DR forum. I enjoyed TQ. Went ahead and slapped that money down on the table. Look forward to seeing what happens.

[Rhis]

Just heard about this game from Wamplet at the old 3DR forum. I enjoyed TQ. Went ahead and slapped that money down on the table. Look forward to seeing what happens.

Thanks for your support!

[thefly]

Thanks for your support!

No problem! Good luck to your team.

[thedarkwolf333]

My Legendary Edition has just been purchased. Happy to support a development team that seems to still remember what gaming is all about: the fun and the fans.

[rich ruffo]

Does anybody know if the game is going to be Boxed at a later date?

[gradbot]

I'm happy to have donated 48 dollars to the development of this game. Maybe it will be a little more epic with my donation. I for one think games are cheap relative to other forms of entertainment. How much money do you spend per/hour at the movie theater?

Don't forget to have fun (or enjoyment) while developing your game Crate!

[matthewfarmery]

things in general are getting expensive, but on the other hand, certain games are getting over priced, SC2, no idea how much diablo 3 will cost, probably the same, CoD Black ops at £39.99 is just too much for that game, and its buggy as anything, (not bought the game, but seeing loads of negative feedback on how buggy it is on many platforms

as for what price a game should be at? well this is a easy but also difficult question to answer, nowadays, games are getting shorter, getting easier, and more expensive

but a game like quake 2, unreal (original) that was an epic, long game

but you aren't really seeing that anymore, I loved SC, (starcraft) but SC2 was a disappointment, but I managed to pick it up a bit cheaper on amazon UK, otherwise it was about £40 mark, too much, and even then I feel I have wasted my money by getting it

D3 I will skip for the time being, at least until I seen some solid user reviews, so games are getting more disappointing

TQ I thought was a classic, and really wished I known about the game sooner, but I'm glad to be supporting the makers of that game, if they can keep to the same mix that made TQ awesome, then I am glad I paid $58 for the game,

but anyway, I think a lot of game devs aren't that great anymore, many good, old school ones have been shut down or closed their doors, which is a shame, I hope Crate goes from strength to strength and makes more games, as we need goood games for the PC, as many publishers seem to be turning their backs on the PC market now, or not supporting games that well

[Lixi]

Pfft. You have a rabid group of fans eagerly awaiting the release of the game. Some will be skeptical about the need to pre-pay, but I'd rather that and be able to play the beta or what not, than to hope to hell to get a key based on some supposed random type of draw. I see no issue. If you don't want to pay then don't.

If it helps at all for the game to move forward then I'm glad to help. Hell, fly me over and save the money from paying an actor to do voice overs. I'll do it for free :: grin :: I'm sure there's any number of us doggedly checking out the forum here wondering if our input means anything.. well, we know our money has to, even if it's to keep the dev's jacked on chocolate and pop to keep them upright when their creative juices have evaporated.

P.s
I agree with an earlier post, that this being a game for fun and fans and the consideration you're putting forth in asking for opinions along with a recent and positive experience I had with customer service made it all tha tmore personal. I feel like it's about making a great game here, not just about the potential for profits (which of course is important for future games). Too many games that I've stumbled upon seem more about gambling, than about gaming.

[Buzz_Kiel]

All I needed to hear was "spiritual successor to titan quest".

Here is my credit card, have your way with it.

Exactly; well put.

[jake21]

I'm curious; if a publisher approached you at this point would you consider assistance ?

My understanding is over the long haul titan quest has done quite well so I would think that route would be an interest. Then again with digital distribution and word of mouth (titan quest helps a lot here) you might be a lot better off staying independent.

Hopefully Grim Dawn will be better than titan quest (my only reservation is that it will not have much in the way of puzzles and quest branches; something I personally like but perhaps most people dislike and makes development more difficult).

[Dragon-RD]

Greetings guys I'm new to the forum and just figured I'd stop by to state I too have purchased the legendary edition of the game.

Being a fan of the hack and slash genre it just seemed to make sense.

[Zgore]

Greetings guys I'm new to the forum and just figured I'd stop by to state I too have purchased the legendary edition of the game.

Being a fan of the hack and slash genre it just seemed to make sense.

Hi, welcome!! Pretty exciting looking game huh?!?!?!

[medierra]

Greetings guys I'm new to the forum and just figured I'd stop by to state I too have purchased the legendary edition of the game.

Being a fan of the hack and slash genre it just seemed to make sense.

Well then, greetings and much thanks! :D

[wsensor]

Just a quick question.

How do we go about informing you of an email change?

I am apparently switching internet provider from one to another (I have so much stuff to change over enough for 3 email accounts worth of stuff for my family lol.)

So would I just email the support or is there somewhere else to change it? (Currently printing about 300+ important emails from 3 email accounts lol.)

[ZorusX]

I finally was able to purchase the legendary key for Grim Dawn!

In addition to a key, is there any addional ways to donate?

[mamba]

In addition to a key, is there any addional ways to donate?

Buy more keys :D

[eisprinzessin]

How do we go about informing you of an email change?
From Order Support:
Email us if you need to change the email address associated with a key - support@crateentertainment.com

We'll need your key, the old email address and your new email address. [...]
It appears that your old email address is still live, which should make things even easier. ;)

[wsensor]

Yea I just got my new email address set up.

I have been switching things over and other than 2 game accounts that need to be GOLD subscription to change over (costs me 20$ to get gold on both for 3 months.) if I don't pay it I loose my unlimited free forever classic account access and become a dreaded trial account lol.

Oh well gonna get this stuff all sent through now before I loose my old account access.

[medierra]

I finally was able to purchase the legendary key for Grim Dawn!

In addition to a key, is there any addional ways to donate?

Awesome, thanks for the support!

If you really wish to donate more (mind blown) the only options right now are to buy additional keys or leave a duffel bag loaded with cash in a secret pickup location such as under a park bench or other public area where a bystander could easily find it and take it, kicking off the plot of some 80s style spy-espionage-suspense-thriller.

[Ammiel Lo Debar]

Awesome, thanks for the support!

If you really wish to donate more (mind blown) the only options right now are to buy additional keys or leave a duffel bag loaded with cash in a secret pickup location such as under a park bench or other public area where a bystander could easily find it and take it, kicking off the plot of some 80s style spy-espionage-suspense-thriller.

I choose option #2!

[Rainier Wolfcastle]

Awesome, thanks for the support!

If you really wish to donate more (mind blown) the only options right now are to buy additional keys or leave a duffel bag loaded with cash in a secret pickup location such as under a park bench or other public area where a bystander could easily find it and take it, kicking off the plot of some 80s style spy-espionage-suspense-thriller.

What about if somebody sent a check to your crate office made out to crate entertainment?

[SHODANFreeman]

Awesome, thanks for the support!

If you really wish to donate more (mind blown) the only options right now are to buy additional keys or leave a duffel bag loaded with cash in a secret pickup location such as under a park bench or other public area where a bystander could easily find it and take it, kicking off the plot of some 80s style spy-espionage-suspense-thriller.

I wish to donate more in the form of merchandise purchases. Make it so. ;)

[Darkenmal]

Start a clothing line! Make t-shirts, baseball caps, shorts, pants, shoes, socks..

There is a ton of money to be made!




:D

[ZorusX]

What about a duffel-bag full of cookies?

[nugar]

I've just purchased the Legendary pack as well (now that the Aussie dollar is so much better) and if TQ:IT is anything to go be (which I am still playing) then donating by getting the Legendary pack was a simple choice. Can't wait for the alpha to start.

[horrendous1]

I wonder, do some of the developers know NoX?

[eisprinzessin]

Hi horrendous1, chances to get a reply from Crate are certainly better, if you ask this in a new thread and specify, what you would like to know.

[medierra]

I know of it and played it several years ago, although I only played for maybe an hour just to check it out. I only vaguely remember it.

[PhamTrinli]

hahaha i used to play Nox all the time back in the day. I really loved what they did with the cursor having those sparklies follow it and burst when you clicked! :D

the game had decent magic too.

[ekopalm]

I'm sure someone has mentioned this or someone has taken the time to attempt this. But there are tons and tons and tons of events that allow demoing right? i know some even do them for cheap for indie developers. Anyway, another fan wanting more people to want this game.

[loudermp]

The gameplay trailer looks awesome, this just gets me more ecited about playing, I look at my donation as something I am interested in with some perks, I have donated to charities and political groups to support ideas I believe in so why not donate to this project, which I look at as supporting jobs and the economy, I am not bragging to get others to donate I am just thankful I am able to right now, so if your money is tight I definitly would not commit the money.

[Bobot]

Nox was a fantastic game - provided me and my friend with many many nights of entertainment (especially the giant stone fist you could conjure on mobs).

Moving closer to on topic: I loved TQ!

But back on topic: I think what you guys are doing is fantastic; not only do you give us the option to donate in order to help fuel production (not only increasing the amount of content/gameplay, but also speeding production up), but you also give us access to the Alpha? Very rarely do companies do this - it's almost always an internal Alpha with the employees of that particular company, and IF you're lucky enough to know someone on the development team you might get access. And even Beta testing can sometimes be a hard thing to get into. I think one of the best things a company can do is get a steady and constant flow of feedback from their potential customers - I don't see that going wrong... we're the ones going to be playing, so who better to test and give input?

I can say that the early early access is what sold me instantly (and not to mention my name in the credits ;) lol)... I am excited to get into the Alpha/Beta and start playing! You can look forward to input from this guy!

[Vighorus]

Contributions - Are we Crazy to Ask?

Answer: No, you're not crazy.

[SgtSlacker]

Absolutely not, all I know is when my credit card finally gets mailed to be from the bank, i know where $50 of it is going ;)
Keep the awesome work going Crate :D

[hooby]

I hope you are crazy! Being normal equals being boring!

But to prove your craziness you have to come up with something better than this!

[nicki_1911]

You're net crazy at all.
In my opinion your courage to develop this game without a publisher on your own needs to be rewarded. Your advantage is that you're free to do what ever comes in your mind without having to justify yourself.
I'm sure that Grim Dawn will be let's call it "The Next Big Thing". By ordering the game pre-release many people show their confidence in a great game to you, and so do I.

Today I just bought the Legendary fan edition of this game.

I do really hope you kick Diablo 3's ass with this game. If this one even gets better than TQ it might happen. It would feel great if such a small studio as you would beat a Blizzard's game.
But even if it won't be as good as Diablo 3, I feel good supporting you and your game ideas.

Keep on your good work! ;)

[mithrial]

You're not crazy at all.
I just ordered the legendary edition and feel prouder than ever.

Why should I throw the money to some gigantic publisher for a game I hardly enjoy for a few hours? I'm better off giving the money to a game I already love even if there are just two videos and some pictures and spend the saved time with TQ (yes I'm still playing it).

[Dr.Phibes]

I'd be glad to donate. I can't buy the game though. Damn you, credit cardless country.

[yerkyerk]

I'd be glad to donate. I can't buy the game though. Damn you, credit cardless country.

No, no, damn the credit card countries!

[Tenka]

*edit* misunderstood thread.

[mithrial]

I think if someone wants to be a contributor there should be nothing that stops him.

Maybe some forum users with credit cards can buy the game and send the key to the ones without credit card. This could work as long as he gets his money as well ;)

[matthewfarmery]

debit cards work, if that is of any help. but I do think the ability to gift the game would be nice

edit

better then Diablo 3? that would be good, I know D3 has taken a major turn in art direction, which I'm not keen of, also they seem to have reworked the uses of potions, so yeah, I think this could beat D3, there is also Torchlight 2 another ARPG that I'm interested in, but won't be released in a while, its been pushed back a lot, and may not be released until September or later, so I think eith that game, D3 has some serious competition on its hands, and for me, I think TL2 and GD will be my first choices of games then D3 afterwards (if they all happen to be released at the same time that is)

[Spinfx]

Contributions is a good idea, maybe you can put a paypal link?

[yerkyerk]

Contributions is a good idea, maybe you can put a paypal link?

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1880

[Tufelhunden]

Contributions is a good idea, maybe you can put a paypal link?

Here's the best way to contribute, IMO.

http://www.grimdawn.com/contribute_buynow01.php

[Ruben]

I bought the legendary fan edition because I played Titan Quest and Titan Quest: Immortal Throne for the first time in around 2007 and loved it, but I didn't buy the game until many years later, something which I am extremely remorseful and shameful for. :(

Since then I've bought both Titan Quest and Titan Quest: Immortal Throne twice, both as retail copies and on Steam, but that doesn't make a difference for the former Iron Lore employees. All I can say is, in 2007 I was very young and I had no money, but that's no excuse and I'm so so sorry. :undecided:

Like I said I've bought the legendary fan edition now, and I'll buy any and all DLC or hopefully expansions you release for the game after its release. I don't care if it's fucking brightly pink colored armor for your raven familiar I would still buy that to make amends. I can't go back in time, but I apologize for what I did and I'll do what little I can to support Crate Entertainment. :o

[Bolvai]

Proud LE owner here! I contributed for several reasons. I'd like to encourage more indie devs to take a stab at the ARPG genre. I've never had the privilege to participate as a tester but believe I'd do well and enjoy it. I don't like the direction most ARPG's are going these days and want to support a team that is going the opposite direction of titles like Crimson Alliance and Torchlight, depth please, thank you.


Oh, yeah. TBA in-game accessory. No idea what it is, probably a pink cape with turquoise polka dots....whatever, I must have it! :p

[deathwings51]

Hi. This is my first actual contribution to this forum and I just want to put forward a few things I learned from my experiences in TQ (also considering the fact that Crate has people from Iron Lore). Please I urge you to keep skill tree limited in numbers and more focused unlike TQ. A lot of players came up with brilliant builds and so many skills meant huge room for experimentation but for people like me it was confusing as hell and a lot of characters ended up being never played cuz the build just wasn't right. This problem was more dire in the beginning 15-20 levels.

I am coming from D2 and Torchlight mainly and the whole choosing from multiple skill trees and stuff was more of a clusterfuck than enjoyable. Maybe it was because I want more into hack and slash (and not uber-customization) games. For me fun in playing also involves being able to do certain things like making my character in a as simple way as possible and not get bogged down by too many details. I'll end my banter here and consider this my two cents. Thanks :)

[mamba]

Hi. This is my first actual contribution to this forum and I just want to put forward a few things I learned from my experiences in TQ (also considering the fact that Crate has people from Iron Lore). Please I urge you to keep skill tree limited in numbers and more focused unlike TQ. A lot of players came up with brilliant builds and so many skills meant huge room for experimentation but for people like me it was confusing as hell and a lot of characters ended up being never played cuz the build just wasn't right. This problem was more dire in the beginning 15-20 levels.

Actually, I rather want them to go the other way and expand on the skill tree or at least make all skills viable (in TQ some are clearly superior, in essence 'narrowing' the skill tree again).

Both D2 and TL are rather boring as far as skill trees go. I certainly would not use either one as an example of what to do, but rather as examples what not to do.

Also, I do not see your problem. So what if you invested in a skill you later on find you do not like / use / is not powerful. You can respec your skill points, so this is not a permanent loss.

[deathwings51]

Nevermind, its just a difference of opinion. I guess I am so used to D2 and TL type of skill trees now that I just don't want to go into huge customization. I never found either of them boring or uninteresting for that matter but would not argue with anyone just to prove my point. I said what I experienced, no more no less :)

[i.n.s.a.n.e]

Nevermind, its just a difference of opinion. I guess I am so used to D2 and TL type of skill trees now that I just don't want to go into huge customization. I never found either of them boring or uninteresting for that matter but would not argue with anyone just to prove my point. I said what I experienced, no more no less :)

Haha, you should check out Path of Exile's skill tree. :p


Anyway, from what I heard, the skill trees will be reworked, not in a manner you want them, but it will be better/understandable/meaningful. The only "advice" I can give you is - use forums' recommended builds when the game comes out, I am sure there will be plenty.

[Droppz]

Once i get some extra cash over I will contribute into this game for sure, had such a good time with Titan Quest and still do :)

But what really motivates me towards that is the developers, how they interact with us fans and post updates and really involve us into their project even though it might not be very often.

[brettmania]

I paid 50$ to get into the diablo 3 beta, and I've beaten it hundreds of times, need something new.

[deathwings51]

Is there a report somewhere showing how much money has been contributed and how much are you falling short by (or have excess). I don't want to be a party pooper here but I strongly believe donation doesn't mean throwing money. It means giving and seeing that it is put to good use (or atleast get a report of what it is being spent on). If none of that is possible, I would atleast like to see a report on how much has been contributed and how much is the target and what not. I would gladly pre-order if those statistics were made available. Sorry to have come off as too formal but that's how I see this situation

[nighteyes]

Hi Deathwings,
There is a thread on the number of preorders that they have had here (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2240&highlight=donations). It is getting slightly older now but you can still get an idea from it.

[deathwings51]

Thanks for the info. I'm going for the Normal edition (since that is all I can afford right now). Any idea if this will be a digital download or not ?

[matthewfarmery]

it will be a digital download at first, in order to have boxed copies, Crate will have to sign up with a publisher, and that thought makes my skin crawl

so for the time being anyway, it will be a digital download, then maybe boxed copies later

[deathwings51]

Pre-ordered Normal edition. That's all I could afford but hope the contribution helps.

[shawnmck]

it will be a digital download at first, in order to have boxed copies, Crate will have to sign up with a publisher, and that thought makes my skin crawl

so for the time being anyway, it will be a digital download, then maybe boxed copies later

While I already payed for a Legendary order, I would love for this to see a release on disc.
I would gladly fork over more money for extra copies.
I just prefer to have physical copies of games.

[Zero_Harker]

I think given the reputation of Crate from Titan quest, it's gained a loyal fanbase. I'm happy to be part of the support process, even if I'm a little late it's better than never. It's not like we were pressured into helping.. we choose it ourselves <3