How does GD handle the loots?

[Pixie]

Is it still like TQ, everyone in the game can see and grab the loots? If it's possible, I would prefer diablo3 style...

[Sile]

Haven't really followed D3 too much since Blizz don't feel it's worth releasing new information too often.

How does Diablo3 plan to handle the loot situation?

[Steerpike]

I'd hope it handles matters in a similar way to Sacred 2, where the item is reserved for the person causing the drop for 30 or so seconds, and is then available to anyone after that. I don't like the idea of having loot thieves online...

[eisprinzessin]

medierra's most recent feedback on looting in MP:I was thinking a filter so that each person only saw loot dropped for them and if they didn't bother to pick it up, no one got it. Basically, as someone described, for loot it would be as though you were playing single player.
That's the best thread I found on this topic ... priors threads were: Drops in Co-op (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273) and Individual Loot (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180).

[Pixie]

Thanks for the urls. These are great discussions.

[Sile]

medierra's most recent feedback on looting in MP:
Originally Posted by medierra View Post
I was thinking a filter so that each person only saw loot dropped for them and if they didn't bother to pick it up, no one got it. Basically, as someone described, for loot it would be as though you were playing single player.

This sounds just perfect.

[dr_bowtie]

that does sound good....

the thing I hated about TQ/TQIT is the loot that dropped was better for every one but me....I was always getting stuff suited better for others...not sure the logic behind that

[Inferus]

isnt that just imagination since you are one in a number of different classes. its probably pretty evenly spread between the classes but since there's so many it seems like its "always" for another class and not yours?

[Azrael]

that does sound good....

the thing I hated about TQ/TQIT is the loot that dropped was better for every one but me....I was always getting stuff suited better for others...not sure the logic behind that

This is really worrying!

The magic of loot drops is that not every single one is going to be useful for you! If every piece of loot was useful to me in some way then I'd lose interest in the game very very quickly.

The logic for varied loot drops (the way I see it) is so that you can collect items for trade or for other characters! Please do not make the loot item type dependent on class !!

[Sile]

Im sure he realises why the game is made to drop random loots.. I reckon he worded it wrong.. I think he was just complaining about his luck and that he never seems to get anything good to drop for his class!

[Azrael]

I hope so...
In that case the best course of action would be to check what class you have the most items for, and make that class! :p

[eisprinzessin]

That's called twinking ;)

[Kluga]

That's called twinking ;)

Pfft, in you're into that kinda thing :p . I'm just a loot junkie, I just click on anything blue or purple I care not for its use!

[MageMaster]

Pfft, in you're into that kinda thing :p . I'm just a loot junkie, I just click on anything blue or purple I care not for its use!


Most of the time people I know anyways, don't like playing characters through the first 20 or so levels (or more) if they have already played through with another character. They think they should just start that second character and go straight to level 20 and then equip said loot from their other play though.

I don't think they should be able to jump direct to a predefined level, but do think its nice to have a stash of items usable for another class once I reach the level needed to use the loot.

I'm definitely a loot junkie also, but find my self just selling items due to the fact I don't have room and don't like making so many mules. Gets too time consuming looking for items that are better, and half the time I get something on and then 5 minutes later find something better. If I would have just been out taking on the world during the sort/look time I would already be ahead of the game.

As an after thought, I think it would be nice to sell an item to a "archive" that I could later re-purchase for a hefty markup.

[Kluga]

Most of the time people I know anyways, don't like playing characters through the first 20 or so levels (or more) if they have already played through with another character. They think they should just start that second character and go straight to level 20 and then equip said loot from their other play though.

I don't think they should be able to jump direct to a predefined level, but do think its nice to have a stash of items usable for another class once I reach the level needed to use the loot.

I'm definitely a loot junkie also, but find my self just selling items due to the fact I don't have room and don't like making so many mules. Gets too time consuming looking for items that are better, and half the time I get something on and then 5 minutes later find something better. If I would have just been out taking on the world during the sort/look time I would already be ahead of the game.

As an after thought, I think it would be nice to sell an item to a "archive" that I could later re-purchase for a hefty markup.

Funny what you mentioned in your afterthought, a similar sort of idea was discussed here (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1027).

Each to their own in terms of twinking, I have absolutely nothing against it and sometimes did it myself, but I got bored with my characters quicker when i OP'd them with twink gear. This was especially exploitable in TQ because you could twink a character out with sweet legendary gear in early to mid epic because the stat and level requirements just weren't that high. But I digress..

TQVault worked quite nicely, and was far better than muling IMO. This made being either a "twinker" or loot-junkie far easier.

[Kurina]

Originally Posted by eisprinzessin
medierra's most recent feedback on looting in MP:
I was thinking a filter so that each person only saw loot dropped for them and if they didn't bother to pick it up, no one got it. Basically, as someone described, for loot it would be as though you were playing single player.

Personally, I hope this is not the case upon release. I would find it to be headache inducing to have to monitor all drops with my name on them. There is the option to ignore the drops, but I tend to play these games with friends, thus I would feel compelled to check each item in case my friend needed it, and vice versa. This would likely lead to a lot of needless badgering, asking about each drop and if it is useful or not.

There is also the concern that it is easy to get distracted at times, and completely overlook items. This could lead to some excellent gear being lost, as a second pair of eyes is not there to help catch it. If it were not for my friend and I both keeping an eye on items, we both would have missed some good stuff in the various ARPGs we have played in the past.

I really enjoy the free for all system, even though I understand this may be troublesome playing with random people online. Regardless, I believe the pros far outweigh the cons. I would find a personal name system more stressful, wondering if random online people are hiding excellent gear from me, and constantly badgering my friends about each drop related to their build.

[ASYLUM101]

Personally, I hope this is not the case upon release. I would find it to be headache inducing to have to monitor all drops with my name on them.

In the proposed system, you only see YOUR drops. It wouldn't have names or anything on it, it would just show you drops that belong to you only, the rest would be invisible to you, but visible to the other players.

At least, that's what it seems to say to me and it sounds like a damn good system.

[Kurina]

In the proposed system, you only see YOUR drops. It wouldn't have names or anything on it, it would just show you drops that belong to you only, the rest would be invisible to you, but visible to the other players.

At least, that's what it seems to say to me and it sounds like a damn good system.

That is what I mean, although maybe I worded it wrongly. I would rather not have to begin focusing on every drop dedicated to my character. If I am getting drops that would be better suited for my friends/party, I would have to keep picking them up, asking whether it is useful, and trading things around. It seems like an unnecessary hassle, and something that would slow the pace of the game down.

With a free for all system, I can continue on my way and let my friends pick up what they need, and I pick up what I need. We would each be responsible for related loot, and both have eyes out for special items and not risk overlooking something.

When not playing with friends, I imagine this will make players in random online games less likely to share items as well. Since drops would be hidden from others, that means people can get away with hording special items that other party members could have used. Since the party is oblivious to the fact such an item was dropped, no need to tell anyone about it.

I know it seems a bit pessimistic, but I have played with my fair share of such people in the past who if they can hide something, they most definitely will. At least with a free for all system, I can see how another player is acting, and if they are working for the good of the party or being excessively greedy, allowing me to better gauge if this person is worth playing with or not.

If it were reasonable to do so, allowing the host to pick between the two looting options would be particularly awesome. It would also be fascinating to see which options is chosen by a majority of the community.

[eisprinzessin]

If I am getting drops that would be better suited for my friends/party, I would have to keep picking them up, asking whether it is useful, and trading things around. It seems like an unnecessary hassle, and something that would slow the pace of the game down.

With a free for all system, I can continue on my way and let my friends pick up what they need, and I pick up what I need. We would each be responsible for related loot, and both have eyes out for special items and not risk overlooking something.

How do you and your friends know, that an item is better suited for someone else? In TQ you need to have an item in your inventory before you can compare stats. A tooltip to view stats, before someone picks it up, would be required ... has this been modded?

When not playing with friends, I imagine this will make players in random online games less likely to share items as well. Since drops would be hidden from others, that means people can get away with hording special items that other party members could have used. Since the party is oblivious to the fact such an item was dropped, no need to tell anyone about it.

It's a game - are they breaking the law, if they keep items for themselves? Maybe they need it for a twink. More quotes from the other thread:
But you would have your own loot drops identical to those that you would have in a SP game.

If your friend is playing solo and a piece of Mage gear drops, he has the option to be considerate and think about you and save it for you... or he can ignore it.

Likewise if you find some fighter gear you can be considerate of him, or you can not.

Its a twist in mindset. Would you feel bitter if something dropped SP and he didn't pick it up for you? Would you even know about it?

You still have the exact same chance to spawn good loot for yourself that you would normally have, and in addition to that your friend also has the option to find stuff he could give to you so your actually increasing your chance of finding something you can use if everyone plays nice and is considerate of each other, and mathematically you lose absolutely nothing if they don't.
Void(null) gave pretty much the same response I would have.

The one thing I'd add is that there is also every likelihood when playing with unknown people that they'd hoard whatever good items they happened to get regardless of whether they would be better suited for your character. Everyone loves to save up for that twink. ;)

Besides, if your buddy isn't picking up armor that might be good for you, it seems like more of a problem with them than the system. I mean hey, we can fix the game, but we can't necessarily fix your friends! ; 0

If it were reasonable to do so, allowing the host to pick between the two looting options would be particularly awesome. It would also be fascinating to see which options is chosen by a majority of the community.Choice cannot hurt ;)

[yerkyerk]

I'd love to see seperate loot (although I guess being able to choose can't hurt too much). Picking up armor for friends and giving it to them is quite different from ninja-looting it and give it to them afterwards. In the former, receiving the armor from your friend can be considered a gift, while in the latter you're just a jerk for ninja'ing it and you're still expected to give it to the one who's best suited.

Also, slow, ranged and supportive characters are at an extreme disadvantage when it comes to picking up loot when compared to a melee character. The game would be more focussed around picking up loot than about battling enemies (I see this in all games with shared loot - e.g. Borderlands, Diablo 2).

Although I see some problems with the WYSIWYG system and seperate loot..

[PinkFrog]

Well, about "breaking the laws" or being a jerk: GD is not an mmo, so you won't be forced to play with total strangers.
Even so, the best would be if you can vote-kick players that grief the others.

Apart from that i like the idea of separated loot and especially the social effect of trading or dropping loot for others who can use it better (or saving it for the account-chest... especially if you are putting together a whole set, in case GD will have those again). You know, sharing the loot among the group is a nice act and feels good to everyone :)

[Roros]

I usually play these games with my friends so the concept of ninjalooting in arpg's is completely bizarre to me.
We usually end up having one guy managing crafting materials, one guy doing enchants, and so on, so open looting is just more practical for us. It's just a headache when we constantly have to redistribute stuff every 5 minutes.

Even if someone finds awesome gear that would be a great upgrade for them, they always drop it on the ground first for others to check out - either out of curiosity or if they want it.

I guess we're a tiny minority when it comes to this stuff though. I suppose it's understandable if games have to be designed with ninjalooting in mind, but we tend to find it more annoying than not.

[Kurina]

How do you and your friends know, that an item is better suited for someone else? In TQ you need to have an item in your inventory before you can compare stats. A tooltip to view stats, before someone picks it up, would be required ... has this been modded?

This is exactly what I mean though. For the sake of argument, let us say I am a rogue type class and my friend is more into tanking and melee weapons. Every time some armor drops or a melee weapon, I will have to pick it up and badger my friend as to whether he needs it or not. There is no way for me to know otherwise, and if I didn't do this, it would make me a very poor teammate for not helping him.

I feel it would slow down the pace of the game too much in coop.

As for having to pick up items to view stats first for myself (when tooltips are not present), this is slightly different. I know exactly what to focus on for my character, and can quickly decide what needs to be picked up or kept with a quick glance. It takes all of a second, whereas badgering a friend will require me to stand there typing out each item, and waiting for a reply.

I know it may seem trivial, but it seems like unnecessary steps I have to take to ensure my party gets the gear they need. With a free for all system, it keeps the game moving at a decent pace, as we are not standing around constantly asking about looted items.

It's a game - are they breaking the law, if they keep items for themselves? Maybe they need it for a twink.

There is absolutely no law against it, but if someone is continually hording items, I would like to know that they are not working for the good of the party. It is personal preference, but I prefer not to waste hours playing with someone who only wants to hide items and not share the bounty, especially since it is a team effort.

With a free for all system, at least I know more about the person I am playing with. If they are constantly ninja-looting and hording items, then I know I should probably head off and find a better partner who likes to work as a team, not solely for personal gain.

[ASYLUM101]

^This is the reason game devs become sour, they come up with a good idea, and half the people will hate it for some tiny, ridiculous reason, and the other half will love it.

[PinkFrog]

Hmm ok, i can see that if a party really has different loot-pickup roles the separated loot is annoying.

But i dont see how a party of rogue/warrior has a problem with separated loot. It's not that every sword that drops needs a discussion. Only the interesting ones (rare and ultra-rare for example). And they drop very rarely (hence the name).
On the other hand, if the loot is "free for all", than you constantly have a discussion about picking up stuff because of the money you will get at the vendor. Even if its not a verbal discussion, one or both of the player might always feel that they are grabbing too much or not enough and feel uncomfortable about it. Might be only in a small part of the brain but it's probably there. Or maybe this sort of thing is only in my head, dunno :rolleyes: but i always DO feel uncomfortable when i have the feeling i'm grabbing too much.
With separated loot there is not question that the split is perfectly fair.

[Kurina]

^This is the reason game devs become sour, they come up with a good idea, and half the people will hate it for some tiny, ridiculous reason, and the other half will love it.

My apologies then, I thought we were here to discuss ideas and provide feedback so developers can gauge what the community would like the most. I have not bashed the devs or the game, as I know they are doing their very best to make this an excellent aRPG.

However, if they see half the community disagrees with an idea, then that may be some incentive to provide an in-game loot option if it is reasonable to do so.

[ASYLUM101]

Discussing ideas is one thing, but to argue against a trivial thing so you can keep consistent action in the game is silly. Its really no different at all from free for all looting, except it's locked for you or someone else. You don't want it? Don't pick it up, if it's a smart system, it should have a time limit til it's free for everyone else to loot. It's really not a biggie, it's not like epic loot drops 100% of the time.

[Srikandi]

Hmm, I don't see any reason not to make it an option -- let the game's owner choose the looting system. Then everybody can play how they want. That's the way MMOs do it these days too.

[Echonian]

I think that loot should stay separate. If you are inclined to show every single item you pick up to everyone else in order to make sure they have the best possible gear, that should be your CHOICE, not something that the game is based around. Your CHOICE to slow down the game so that your friends or just random others think better of you and have better gear.

Actually, in my ideal system, multi-player at least should have an option for the game host to specify whether they want people to be allowed to use "twinked" characters or not, pretty much cutting them off from playing in that particular game if they are using items they didn't loot themselves. An easy way to do this would be to label each item's tooltip with the person that originally looted the item (with an option to hide that, of course).

My main issue with titan quest in multi-player, for example, is that I've hosted "new games", and people come in with all of the best items in the game (for low levels, at least). That makes it unfair for the person without such 1337 gear, because they will be comparably weaker despite starting a new game. The only real alternative is to play with friends and rely on them following your rules, or to put in a filter.

I think that balance is important once a game becomes multi-player. And I hope Grim Dawn does a better job of it than Titan Quest was able to.

Choice is key. Choice to host a game with restrictions, and choice to join a game without those same restrictions. XD

[Kluga]

I like Medierra's original proposal, simple and graceful I feel.


Choice is key. Choice to host a game with restrictions, and choice to join a game without those same restrictions. XD


I think it would be best if there wasn't too many options for the host to dictate the loot system, if any.

Possible choices for the host to set for loot drops:
-Medierra's original "personal drops" for each player.
-Personal drops, then the loot becomes available to others after a pre-defined amount of time.
-Basic free-for-all looting.

These are just suggestions; I realize that the last two (especially the last) could be counter-productive to Medierra's concept and could defeat the puprpose of him implementing it in the first place. I'd just prefer the "personal drops" system, but if it were to go down a road where the host dictates how loot drops, I think no more than the aforementioned ideas. If it were to go any further then the system mayhave to go as far as an MMO style "need and greed" system, and I'm sure almost none of us would want to see that.

I, for one would actually offer my team mates loot, provided they weren't total jerks :p I don't twink, I just hoard so I'd be more than happy to offer my loot to those who need it more. They may refuse it, anyway. It's the thought that counts <3

[Echonian]

I don't think that the host should be able to decide HOW loot drops, only how you are allowed to use loot from other games in theirs. I think that it should be their choice as the host, and people can easily host their own game or join a different one if they dislike the rules of that particular session.

[Kluga]

I don't think that the host should be able to decide HOW loot drops, only how you are allowed to use loot from other games in theirs. I think that it should be their choice as the host, and people can easily host their own game or join a different one if they dislike the rules of that particular session.

Sorry, I'm a tad tired and I misread your point. In doing, this I misquoted you (sorry again). I still got a point across though :p

I see what you mean now, and it would be good as it would promote teamwork and all that far better. I guess it could be possible to have a simple boolean variable attached to every item showing whether the character has looted the item themselves or not (item_Looted_by_char = true or false). But do you then have "degrees" of twinked games, like untwinked, no more than 2 twink items, fully twinked?

And then do you have to track traded items as well? If a character has received heaps of loot through trading, are they considered twinked and too powerful for games in their level range?

[Echonian]

Well, like I said, it should be the choice of the host whether or not certain players can join their game (and if a player is more powerful than they should be for their level, the host has every reason to not want them in the game).

And for trading...I would say as long as players weren't able to get better gear than they should have for their level that it would be fine in a game I hosted. In general at least, because by its very nature a randomized loot system will occasionally give you items of greater power than you "should" have. Luckily, its within reason when its randomized and not traded from other characters that randomly got it as well.

[3B0L4]

Maybe some king of matrix where you could select what items will be personalized for who. Like bows only get assigned to rangers and such. Also make an item automatically be assigned to someone when other character are more than 15 meters away or so.

[Echonian]

Well, I just think that the host should have more choice over who can join their game. Obviously, I don't want it to be overcomplicated...but at the same time, a system allowing you to restrict people based on gear would be very nifty.

There is one flaw to this system, and that is gold being shared between characters. The only real fix to that would be to completely redo the currency system in a way that wouldn't make it easy to overpower other characters through it. Or simply have an option to limit the amount of currency a player can join a game with (and remove the ability to withdraw from the shared bank as an option as well).