Torchlight 2 Announced!

[Scryer]

http://www.torchlight2game.com/

Due out next Spring, it will incorporate Multiplayer, and a few other updates.

I'm getting it, that's for sure. It's my favorite Genre, I can't help myself.

[Void(null)]

What happened to the MMO?

[Scryer]

They decided to make a full-fledged Multiplayer version of Torchlight before the MMO, my guess is that the MMO is their next step.

That's what they've been saying so far anyways.

[MadWasp]

Torchlight 2 is much better than a piece of shit torchlight mmo.
Anyway they have to change a ton of things wihch they've failed in their first primitive sh*tlight... There were a lot annoyin' feature in it.

-stupid skill system
-ugly/lazy item interface mini 1x1 item size (I prefer tetris)
-far too kiddish style gfx
-no real story
-boring maps
-no real quests
-identify problems
-rainbow like magic explosions eveywhere meanwhile fight and you don't see your hero. Sometimes the less is the better. I don' like too much magic mambo jumbo throughout the whole screen, all the time. It's not a fair battle it's rather an eye killer.
-few pickable characters
-no genders
-no meanact movies
-boring overall product without secrets and hidden features, easter eggs, mini games.
-no epic boss fights
-insane boring 10 hours health/mana potion drinkin' contest
-lack of inventory space as potions/identify scrolls eat up the most of the useful cargo space.
-miniature gems to socketed weapons were a gfx nightmare. They were hard to know them they had only different colors and their size was just a pinup head. Laughable.


so...there is a lot to do....in TL2

[yerkyerk]

Coop is great news, hopefully they'll add a lot of depth in the game mechanics though, the game was great for a little while, but too shallow to really hold my attention. I never even managed to finish it - and I'm that kind of guy that continues to play boring games for the sole purpose of finishing them, even when the last drop of entertainment value has long since dried out.

[Kurina]

The decided to make a full-fledged Multiplayer version of Torchlight before the MMO, my guess is that the MMO is their next step.

That's what they've been saying so far anyways.

That is correct. On their forums, they released a small, additional FAQ to go with the announcement page. Torchlight 2 will be released Q2 2011, with the MMO to follow according to them.

Looking forward to this, and glad to see it will have multiplayer! While I do not mind playing an ARPG solo, nothing beats co-op'ing it with a friend. :D

[jamesL]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/29735/Runic_Announces_Torchlight_II_FollowUp.php

[Renevent]

Great news! I hope they really work on making the classes/skills a bit deeper and more interesting this time around though.

[Void(null)]

Torchlight 2 is much better than a piece of shit torchlight mmo.

I didn't say it wasn't.

I was just curious if they dropped the MMO in favor of a true multiplayer sequel using the network code they had developed to create the new game and if they were still planning on doing the MMO after Torchlight 2.

[MadWasp]

I didn't say it wasn't.

I was just curious if they dropped the MMO in favor of a true multiplayer sequel using the network code they had developed to create the new game and if they were still planning on doing the MMO after Torchlight 2.

Yepp..........

[Void(null)]

Yepp..........

Something about your demeanor tells me you are really looking forward to The Torchlight MMO, isn't it going to be great!

I bet you are really looking forward to an item store in an aRPG where character growth is dictated by item quality! Nothing can possibly go wrong with that!

How long have you been waiting for it, and do you think you will get in on the beta.

I'm not interested in it myself, but If I hear anything about it or if I get hold of a beta invite you will be the first person I'll give it to!

[MadWasp]

Haha:D:cool:

[jamesL]

interview and artwork

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/08/04/torchlight-2-interview-with-runic-games/

[corwiniii]

I read about this on EvilAvatar.com (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120070) this morning. They are doing an interview with Runic for the EvAv podcast, which they are releasing tomorrow.

I played TL A LOT when it first came out. It got me back into gaming. It got me into buying TQ:IT which I had never played. And now into the pre-order of GD. So needless to say I'm looking forward to TLII, GD, and Diablo III probably released in that order.

[MadWasp]

I read about this on EvilAvatar.com (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120070) this morning. They are doing an interview with Runic for the EvAv podcast, which they are releasing tomorrow.

I played TL A LOT when it first came out. It got me back into gaming. It got me into buying TQ:IT which I had never played. And now into the pre-order of GD. So needless to say I'm looking forward to TLII, GD, and Diablo III probably released in that order.

you are a good man. ;)

[shawnmck]

I personally can't get excited over TL2 in the slightest, for many of the reasons MadWasp already stated. I can't even bring myself to finish TL, even though I'm certain I'm close to the end. This game just bores me like nothing else. The colors & light explosions too often hide the attack cursor & I find it hard to locate it well enough to attack enemies. The enemies just seem to blur together in one large mass of colors & shapes. I really hate the non-linear maze like dungeons, and the graphics too cute to really impress me. And I could go on.
So I have absolutely no interest in TL2.
Looks like Grim Dawn & Diablo 3 will be my only isometric hack & slash RPG's that I play (besides TQ of course) ;)

[MadWasp]

I personally can't get excited over TL2 in the slightest, for many of the reasons MadWasp already stated. I can't even bring myself to finish TL, even though I'm certain I'm close to the end. This game just bores me like nothing else. The colors & light explosions too often hide the attack cursor & I find it hard to locate it well enough to attack enemies. The enemies just seem to blur together in one large mass of colors & shapes. I really hate the non-linear maze like dungeons, and the graphics too cute to really impress me. And I could go on.
So I have absolutely no interest in TL2.
Looks like Grim Dawn & Diablo 3 will be my only isometric hack & slash RPG's that I play (besides TQ of course) ;)

Our opinion is the very same in every aspect.

[Azrael]

I personally could only stomach Torchlight for a few hours... it's just too cartoony for me. I hate it when games try to be serious while looking silly.

In any case, at least this will bring some competition to Grim Dawn and Crate ;)

[Shinrou]

Challenger approaches!

Nothing will beat GD anyway at least for me, I'm sure of it!

[mamba]

Coop is great news, hopefully they'll add a lot of depth in the game mechanics though, the game was great for a little while, but too shallow to really hold my attention. I never even managed to finish it - and I'm that kind of guy that continues to play boring games for the sole purpose of finishing them, even when the last drop of entertainment value has long since dried out.

I finished it once, just for the heck of it (and due to a lack of other games I was interested in at that time). Multiplayer may be interesting, but whether it is enough for me will most likely depend on what other games are out there at that time. TL by itself was not enough to make me want more of it - unlike TQ.

[Sile]

I can't see TL2 contending with GD at all. TL2 multiplayer? Still boring, except instead of 1 person being bored, it's double the bore.

The 2 best things about TL for me was the pet who sells your crap to the vendors (Epic time saver!) and the fact it runs great on my laptop which is about 8 yeas old.

Anyway that's just my take. TL2 is slated for 2011 release i think.. Hopefully GD is released around the same time in which case, hands down, I'll be playing GD plus I've already payed for it haha..

GD will also be the game that TL has had to release 2 versions of to get too..?

[Kardiophylax]

Not a bad additional ARPG option. I say the more the merrier.

I guess those successful numbers we've seen flying around about Torchlight changed their mindset about creating another non-mmo version.

[gdansk]

I very much enjoyed Torchlight, it also proves there is some life/profit left in the genre contrary to what publishers seem to say... if it adds to action RPG formula, rather than just rehash, it will be a welcome addition to my library.

[zidders]

Wow...what's with some of the Torchlight hate going on in this thread? I realize that Torchlight wasn't all deep and didn't have a huge story...but it was still pretty damn good, for what it was. As far as the whole 'cutesey, kidsy' graphics...I'd kill to be able to make those kinds of models and do that kind of art. Just because it's closer to cartoony animation than gritty, dark gothy realism doesn't make it a bad game. Some of you guys might not like it..that's fine..but save the scorn, derision and holier-than-thou look down your nose attitudes for the really BAD games that show up in this genre. There are a lot of them.

I'm a huge fan of Titan Quest, and I can't wait for grim dawn. I played Sacred to death, as well as Sacred 2. The point i'm making is, even if you don't like the game, don't be so quick to sneer at it, because who knows wether or not someone playing Torchlight, TL 2 or the MMO might become inspired and go on to make the next great action/rpg.

[Sile]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how good or bad. :)

[Betrayer]

For me Torchlight was fun for a few hours, but got excruciatingly boring after that.
I couldn't finish it, even though I was at the end.
I made a hardcore character to add some excitement but it wasn't enough.

They'll need to make some big changes in TL2 to get my attention.
Namely, more variety in environments and gameplay.
I spent way too long in each environment.

[yerkyerk]

I'm a huge fan of Titan Quest, and I can't wait for grim dawn. I played Sacred to death, as well as Sacred 2. The point i'm making is, even if you don't like the game, don't be so quick to sneer at it, because who knows wether or not someone playing Torchlight, TL 2 or the MMO might become inspired and go on to make the next great action/rpg.
A product should be judged by its merits. I for one prefer to read a true opinion rather than a watered down one.

Torchlight was fun while it lasted, but very shallow.
If I couldn't even bring myself to finish the first game, how should I look forward to the second part if there's no real changes?

I mean, if it's in the bargain bin for 5 euro's there's no doubt I'll pick up a few copies for the next LAN-party, but that would be it.

[Prosoro]

Torchlight rules man! lol ..oh so serious arn't we :D

yeah well I like TL for what it is.

[Sile]

Having TL run on my 8year old laptop (ok, a few graphics turned down but it's certainly not game breaking) is a real plus! It's a good game I can jump straight into and hack at stuff. I doubt I'll be able to play GD on my lappy.. but I'm hoping to get a new one soon.
It's just not a game that can keep me captivated enough to play night after night after night etc.. like TQ is doing atm.

[Kluga]

I thought TL was actually quite good for what is was. It was built from the ground up in like 11 months or something like that and did offer some entertainment and a lot of potential. I feel like they never intended to put out a full game with TL, I kind of saw it as a really big demo for the MMO, which is now obviously pushed back. I think both TL2 and the MMO could be very good and I look forward to both.

[ws5926]

Did anyone ever get Torchlight multiplayer going? I read a thread or two about someone working on it, but I never heard if it got released. I would love to play it at one of my lan parties.

Thanks in advance for any responses to my question.

[Sacred]

First TL was quite fun the first run-through then it got boring really fast.
Still gonna buy TL 2 just because there aren't many good games in that genre being released (ok, now we have 3 for next year so it's looking good).

Outdoor environment will be in this one which is a big +.
Hopefully they've learned from all of their mistakes from the first one so the new one will be way better.

[yerkyerk]

We might have a bit more than 3 actually.

I haven't heard anymore about the multiplayer unfortunately. I knew that they some modders were busy with it almost since release and they had some early results, but since I stopped playing the game I stopped keeping an eye on that.

[Sile]

Outdoor environment will be in this one which is a big +.
Hopefully they've learned from all of their mistakes from the first one so the new one will be way better.

True, outdoor maps would make it far more interesting. Will be interesting to see how TL2 differs from TL1 in terms of features and playstyle (with multiplayer).

[Kluga]

Did anyone ever get Torchlight multiplayer going? I read a thread or two about someone working on it, but I never heard if it got released. I would love to play it at one of my lan parties.

Thanks in advance for any responses to my question.

Nah, a true multiplayer function was never completed. Proof of concept was finished but they explained it would take a very long time to completely mod it in.

[Roros]

I think people are being way too harsh on Torchlight considering how quickly and cheaply they made it. It's meant as a stepping stone towards their mmo, and not a 3 year $15 million project.
Complaining about a low budget feel would be the same as pointing out how Grim Dawn won't have epic 5 minute CG movies between chapters. I'm pretty sure you could fund GD and TL a dozen times over with the amount some developers spend on their cinematics. I think it was $7 million to do the ingame scripted sequences in Resident Evil 5.

I had a lot of fun with TL. I really liked the graphics, and I find that people going through their "mario is for kids" phase are the only ones finding them childish. I'm a couple years away from 30 and I like these graphics a lot more than the likes of Age of Conan or whatever, and it runs just as well on my shoddy laptop as it does on my gaming rig.

[Kardiophylax]

Torchlight was fun for a few weekends, but had a few glaring issues in my mind.

One was that it just wasn't very hard. I beat it on very hard hardcore with a very non mainstream build (destroyer class using a gun) within a few weeks of play.

Second, the endgame option (endless dungeon) was boring and did not make me want to keep playing.

Thirdly, there were too many shared and/or useless skills. The Vanquisher never got a playthrough from me because it just seemed so boring compared to other ranged classes I've played (Sage and Avenger from TQ in particular). The game lacked a lot of skill synergy in general and you mainly picked one spell/ability and spammed it most of the time, sometimes taking a quick break to hit your obligatory cooldowns and buff spells.

If they can fix these issues, the game could have some serious legs. Right now though, the first incarnation only managed to hold my attention for about 1/6th of the time that TQ did.

[Sacred]

I think people are being way too harsh on Torchlight considering how quickly and cheaply they made it. It's meant as a stepping stone towards their mmo, and not a 3 year $15 million project.
Complaining about a low budget feel would be the same as pointing out how Grim Dawn won't have epic 5 minute CG movies between chapters. I'm pretty sure you could fund GD and TL a dozen times over with the amount some developers spend on their cinematics. I think it was $7 million to do the ingame scripted sequences in Resident Evil 5.

I had a lot of fun with TL. I really liked the graphics, and I find that people going through their "mario is for kids" phase are the only ones finding them childish. I'm a couple years away from 30 and I like these graphics a lot more than the likes of Age of Conan or whatever, and it runs just as well on my shoddy laptop as it does on my gaming rig.

Low budget or not shouldn't matter. All that matters is the experience playing the game. GD will not be as good without the cinematics, I understand the reason for that,but again it's all about the experience playing the game.
The devolpers probably did a great job with what they had but I don't think I should have to know the budget of a title before I decide if I think it's good or not.

[Roros]

I'm not saying low budget makes it a better game, but that listing the lack of cinematics (for example) as poor design or just "something they didn't do because they were lazy" is jarring to me.

I suppose I'm carrying a bit of baggage from other forums since I see this game being trashed a lot all over the place. I've seen a lot of people with the "never played it and never will" mentality due to it's lack of CG cinematics and "childish" graphics.

[Sacred]

We might have a bit more than 3 actually.

I haven't heard anymore about the multiplayer unfortunately. I knew that they some modders were busy with it almost since release and they had some early results, but since I stopped playing the game I stopped keeping an eye on that.

I think I forgot one title, still not remembering.. heh
On my list as of now
Grim Dawn
Diablo III
Torchlight 2

Any other isometric hack & slash announced for next year?

Roros: ah, then I understand. And agree.

[Kardiophylax]

I think I forgot one title, still not remembering.. heh
On my list as of now
Grim Dawn
Diablo III
Torchlight 2

Any other isometric hack & slash announced for next year?

I think there are...

Dungeon Siege 3
Darkspore

Possibly some others I'm also forgetting about right now...

[Sacred]

ah yes. Dungeon siege 3 was the one I forgot.
Darkspore is weird but in an interesting way.
Thanks

[Scryer]

Where Torchlight failed, Torchlight 2 will attempt to compensate and make up for it.

I could easily say the same about Diablo 2 vs the original Diablo. Diablo 3 will improve upon it's previous title also.

Grim Dawn, as much as we want it to be the kick-ass game that beats Diablo 3 in a beer drinking match, will have it's own problems. But, we should just take that with a grain of salt, and hope that the next title Crate creates will be even more kick-ass then their first one.

[Wildman]

TorchLight was a fun little time killer and that was all it was meant to be, TL
2 will most likely be a good test bed for their MMO, I really liked TQ, I loved D2 but the games I'm looking forward to getting are in order Grim Dawn, Dungeon Siege 3, and TorchLight 2....Diablo 3 can wait for the bargain basement as far as I'm concerned.

[yerkyerk]

There's also Sacred 3 (http://www.sacred2.com/en/news/show/detail/Sacred_3_Arbeitstitel_in_Planung.html). Not much news there though.
And than there's Mythos, whatever will happen to that...

[heron]

I'm not sure why some are against TL2.
Aren't we all into the arpg genre which are lacking tremendously as of late?
I welcome all or any new arpg into the market.
Let's be grateful and not bitter towards these developers, instead of bashing let's give them our support!

As for the release of TL2, I'm very excited!

[Kardiophylax]

I'm not sure why some are against TL2.
Aren't we all into the arpg genre which are lacking tremendously as of late?
I welcome all or any new arpg into the market.
Let's be grateful and not bitter towards these developers, instead of bashing let's give them our support!

As for the release of TL2, I'm very excited!

My biggest issue with the game from the outset was the lack of unique skills. If they can fix that, and perhaps address the monotonous endless dungeon mechanic, then I'd be more excited about it. I enjoyed the first game, pre-ordered and really anticipated it in fact, but in the end the joy was short lived and left me wanting for more.

I'm glad they added a class and hope they mix up the skills (ditch all the shared skill1) a bit. Also, I'd like it if spells were more useful or at least lasted longer. I found most of them incredibly annoying to cast constantly.

[Mind Dragon]

Most aRPGs seem to have problems with skills. The idea that you need to specialize was an idea that made sense logically but has little to do with action and variety. I think that idea is too well worn -- and unless handled/compensated by other design will result in the action part of the game being less than it could be and people are starting to expect/want more.

I think that a variety of skills/spells/attacks and the selection of those by the player is the way to go. The enemies would have to present a need to select different tactics.

If the player combines the skills properly during the battle, and executes other valid tactics, the player should prevail. (what is the alternative)

It is boring to spend a lot of skill points in defensive skills so that some relatively infrequent event doesnt increase your death count. Yet, preparing defense in either skills or items is valid part of the game. Even so, it is more strategy than action. The idea of balancing of defense and attack might be worn out as well -- especially as a primary feature of the game (yet it could present and important).

I dont have a problem with the cell shaded style but the pudgy marsmallow shapes can be a problem. The goblins and dwarves look too much alike. The cell shaded style shouldnt be an excuse to be inarticulate in the design of the shapes. Enemies should be interesting to see.

For an aRPG, story outside of gameplay is less important to me, unless it is really good.

I liked some parts of TL, so I hope the next one is better. The beginning areas (mines) and the necropolis had great style including the enemies present (even if easy most of the time). Things started looking up again in the dwarven fortress but the enemies werent different/exciting enough. The dark palace environment looked interesting but the uninteresting danger of the teleport points for ranged/magic players was a problem. Some of the dark palace enemies seemed a bit poor or overused for the dynamic provided.

TL2 would be better if they had more variety in areas and monsters. If they could provide enough variety in skills, monsters and areas to make the "infinite" dungeon viable that would be great.

They could also avoid/limit/change the irritating aspects of the first game. The constricting bridged "islands" area, the spammy and hard to control end boss fight, the crushes at a new level or a teleport point....goblin hounds...

[An7hraX]

I think based on their announcements you can tell they're struggling for a payacheck.

To anyone who hasn't noticed blizzard only releases titles during the summer and winter, and if I had to bet Diablo 3/beta would be released in June 2011, so the developers of torchlight just want to squeeze out a few pennies from gamers by releasing a (in my opinion) sh***y product.

I mean let's face it the only reason anyone bought Torchlight in the first place was because they wanted a d2 style Arpg.

[getter77]

I'll give Torchlight 2 a shot at some point, given the competitive price and them likely to learn from the prior weaknesses I give it good odds of hitting the spot nicely.

[heron]

I think based on their announcements you can tell they're struggling for a payacheck.

To anyone who hasn't noticed blizzard only releases titles during the summer and winter, and if I had to bet Diablo 3/beta would be released in June 2011, so the developers of torchlight just want to squeeze out a few pennies from gamers by releasing a (in my opinion) sh***y product.

I mean let's face it the only reason anyone bought Torchlight in the first place was because they wanted a d2 style Arpg.

I love Blizzard games and all but you have to give other companies a shot at making diablo clones. Example, some say RELICS dawn of war 2 plays much better than starcraft 2. In my opinion, TQ is the king now until diablo3 comes out and my gut tells me it will play like TQ in 3d. Grim Dawn if done right will probably beat Diablo 3.

Only time will tell!

[Shen]

I got the game in a $5 sale, and Torchlight kept me entertained for 15-20 hours, then I uninstalled it. I tried it again a few weeks ago, to see if the community had made any decent mods. There isn't any, and I uninstalled again.

If it's another $20 game I may consider TL2.

[zidders]

There are actually more than a few really good mods out there. Try looking up the Torchleech program. It helps make finding mods a lot easier, as well as installing and uninstalling them. I've been messing with the emberfiend crafting mod and it's added some VERY cool crafting elements to the game. I'm also helping test Drivehappys multiplayer mod. While it still has a ways to go, I think getting at least 2 player co-op into the single player game is doable. As much as I can't wait for the second one, I still would like to see some sort of MP in the first.

[Mind Dragon]

A game like this has a lot of things in it and they did a lot of things right.

It was something they needed to put out quickly and it shows in a some areas.

I knew about the situation before I bought it. Regardless, I think it was a good purchase. I enjoyed playing it and liked the new scenery and art style.

[Renevent]

I think based on their announcements you can tell they're struggling for a payacheck.

To anyone who hasn't noticed blizzard only releases titles during the summer and winter, and if I had to bet Diablo 3/beta would be released in June 2011, so the developers of torchlight just want to squeeze out a few pennies from gamers by releasing a (in my opinion) sh***y product.

I mean let's face it the only reason anyone bought Torchlight in the first place was because they wanted a d2 style Arpg.

Dude you couldn't be anymore wrong. Torchlight sold 600,000 copies so far and is still selling. They did EXTREMELY well with it...in fact much better then they had anticipated.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/29788/Torchlight_Sales_Well_Over_600K_Primarily_Download s.php

I quite liked Torchlight and so does most people I know who played it. The game stands on it's own just fine.

Anyways, here's the reason they state for making Torchlight 2:

http://208.109.240.150/bbs/Topic.aspx?BoardID=7&TopicID=5532


The Torchlight MMO -- you said you're still working on it alongside Torchlight II but why not just focus on the MMO first?

There are a couple reasons. I think that we were overwhelmed by the response after Torchlight came out. Everyone said they loved it, and there were generally good reviews, and I think that literally every comment in every review said it would've been better with co-op. The more we thought about it, we could give people what they're asking for, and give them a nice, co-op Torchlight experience a lot faster than we could do an MMO. So it felt like there was a vacuum there. We decided to do it, because it'd make the MMO better in the long run because we'll have a little more experience with making a multiplayer Torchlight, and it'll give people what they want in the meantime. We kind of ran out of reasons not to do it.

[An7hraX]

Dude you couldn't be anymore wrong. Torchlight sold 600,000 copies so far and is still selling. They did EXTREMELY well with it...in fact much better then they had anticipated.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/29788/Torchlight_Sales_Well_Over_600K_Primarily_Download s.php

I quite liked Torchlight and so does most people I know who played it. The game stands on it's own just fine.

Anyways, here's the reason they state for making Torchlight 2:

http://208.109.240.150/bbs/Topic.aspx?BoardID=7&TopicID=5532

First of all I stated that it's a s****y game in my opinion.

Second 600,000 copies is nothing.
Third pretty much any sort of virtual media - music,films,games - sells so long as there's still some in supply, I don't understand what your point is, there's always someone who will pick up the game from a bargain bin, that's how you know marketing did their job right.

Finally, I could give you, without exaggerating over 100 examples of how success isn't based on quality.
Just look at this: http://www.1up.com/news/best-selling-games-2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg4u7ko333U)

[Scryer]

That's not really an example of what you claim.

Anyways, everyone will have their opinions, but numbers don't lie, any game making the half million mark must have gotten something right.

That's in units sold, not even counting possible pirated copies which could be a larger number.

I generally wait for the review of a game before I buy it, unless it's an ARPG, in which case I take the benefit of the doubt. I am an ARPG fan above all else.

[shawnmck]

ARPG's are my favorite genre, and while I used to buy just about any ARPG that came out, I am not going to do that any more.
I personally would rather have fewer really good ARPG's (Grim Dawn, Diablo 3)... than a bunch of mediocre ARPG's that only serve to empty my wallet and water down my enthusiasm for a really kick-@$$ ARPG.

I've played just about every ARPG (diablo clone) there is, and I'm simply not going to do that any more. Torchlight was mediocre in my honest opinion, and it doesn't warrant the purchase of the sequal (TL2), again just my personal opinion.

BTW
I also like FPS's, and imagine how silly I would be to give every FPS that ever came out a try..?
Maybe for some of you that is an option to try with ARPG's, but this recession is hitting me really hard in the wallet, & it has changed me for better or worse, & I am simply going to be more picky & choosy with my games in the future.
For every great aspect of Torchlight, there was an equal amount of negatives. It's fine with me if some of you plan to pick up the sequal, but I am not going to be so blindly loyal to any game of any genre any longer....I don't care if it happens to be my favorite genre, if it is a mediocre title than I am going to stay away.
And yes, I do consider Torchlight mediocre, but that's just my personal opinion of the game.

My loyalty will remain with Grim Dawn & Diablo 3 because their predecessors were excellent. Any game that was mediocre (torchlight, Sacred 2, etc) that gets a sequel is going to be met with suspician & doubt until I am proven wrong with actual game-play footage.
That doesn't mean that I will never buy Torchlight 2, only that I am going to remain skeptical and not blindly purchase it or any other game on a whim or because it is among my favorite genre.
I'm just not going to do it any more. I've been burned more times than I care to admit.

[zidders]

Listening to a recent podcast, I heard a startling fact. Torchlight has sold over 600k units...that's NOT counting digital downloads. According to Travis Baldtree, one of the head devs, the game sold even MORE digital copies..something like a 4 to 1 ratio.

So yeah...I don't think Runic is hurting. Another sign of that is the fact that Perfect World invested $8.1 million in Runic, yet has pretty much taken a completely hands-off approach, and don't even seem to care that Runic is self-publishing a sequel before they start working on the MMO.

When you think about where the Runic guys came from..the ruins of Flagship studios..it's easy to see where they might have wanted to go with what they knew..action/rpg's..and stayed small. And they still want to stay small. Hellgates problem was they tried to think too big and do too much...and that led to a lot of really sad shit.

So, torchlight might not have been perfect, but it's still pretty damn good compared to most independant action/rpg's that get shoved out into the marketplace, and at a really decent price..even before all the sales.

Yeah I know I sound like a Runic fanboi well yeah I kinda am im unapologetic about that. They got screwed and turned a shitty situation around and made it work for them.

[Renevent]

First of all I stated that it's a s****y game in my opinion.

Second 600,000 copies is nothing.
Third pretty much any sort of virtual media - music,films,games - sells so long as there's still some in supply, I don't understand what your point is, there's always someone who will pick up the game from a bargain bin, that's how you know marketing did their job right.

Finally, I could give you, without exaggerating over 100 examples of how success isn't based on quality.
Just look at this: http://www.1up.com/news/best-selling-games-2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg4u7ko333U)

600,000 copies is a lot considering how much TL cost to make. I believe they stated they only expected 200,000 sales...they are VERY happy with the sales. As someone else stated, numbers don't lie.

And the game was reviewed all around well, and it received very good player reviews as well. You may not like it...that's fine...but what you said about them struggling for a paycheck doesn't hold any truth to it what-so-ever. The fact is they did very well with Torchlight and most players enjoyed the game a lot.

The reason they are making Torchlight 2 is because the first did stellar and the player base wants more with co-op.

[Kardiophylax]

If you're looking for some more info on Torchlight II, there is a steaming audio interview with Runic Games here: http://fronttowardsgamer.com/2010/08/06/front-towards-gamer-radio-ambush-episode-17-runic-games-for-torchlight-2/

Also some other information if you don't want to listen to all that audio:
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/torchlight-iis-new-classes-and-multiplayer-explained-2010089/

Looks like they won't be using any of the original classes and are introducing 5 new classes including a "Railman" and an "Outlander". Good move on there part.

[alexei]

Listening to a recent podcast, I heard a startling fact. Torchlight has sold over 600k units...that's NOT counting digital downloads. According to Travis Baldtree, one of the head devs, the game sold even MORE digital copies..something like a 4 to 1 ratio.

Nope, it's mostly digital (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28584/Runic_Games_Torchlight_Sells_500000.php). Yeah it's impressive number and I hope they will be successful with the second installment.

[Roros]

4 player minimum? That's an odd requirement. The way it's worded it sounds like you can't play with 2 or 3 players.

Maybe the pet plays a bigger role now and counts as an AI party member, making 2 players with one pet each count as 4 members.

[mamba]

4 player minimum? That's an odd requirement. The way it's worded it sounds like you can't play with 2 or 3 players.

Maybe the pet plays a bigger role now and counts as an AI party member, making 2 players with one pet each count as 4 members.

I doubt that, it would be an odd way to phrase it and confuse everyone. If that is what they meant, they simply would say two players (because that is what it is).

I really think they talk about 4 people + pets, not 2 people. Why they would want at least 4 people in it is unclear to me though.

[jamesL]

what is the maximum number of people for multiplayer ?
4 minimum

so 4 is the min max at the moment

they're playing around with the skills and graphics to see if 8 is possible or if that will overtax the minimum system requirements they hope to obtain

but you can obviously play with 2 or 3

can't believe people are having a hard time figuring this out

[heron]

They need to maximize the amount of players because they will face the same problem with the MMO version.

6 is a good number in a party.
However, with pets add 6 more which gives us 12 in a party then factor in summons, lol.
No wonder they are having a hard time. ;)

But if wow can do it (5 hunter classes with pets), there's no excuses.

[Kardiophylax]

One of the issues with too many players or too many pets is that the game is already designed to flood the screen with a lot of enemies, like most ARPGs do. If you have 6 players each able to spawn 4 pets, you've suddenly got 24 friendly units running around, not to mention all the enemy units. It starts to get really messy from a gameplay standpoint even if performance/fps is fine.

Now, ideally, not all 6 players would be in the same zone or screen at the same time, but they could be.

[corwiniii]

I just finished listening the Evil Avatar podcast (http://shotgunpodcast.com/wp-content/episodes/Shotgun081.mp3) with Runic. Pretty good. It's a bit rough in the beginning, but good information none-the-less.

[Kardiophylax]

I just finished listening the Evil Avatar podcast (http://shotgunpodcast.com/wp-content/episodes/Shotgun081.mp3) with Runic. Pretty good. It's a bit rough in the beginning, but good information none-the-less.

Thanks for the heads up on that. I've listened to a few of these podcasts on Torchlight II now and my anticipation has increased quite a bit. It sounds really promising. I'm very happy to see that ARPGs are getting some love from talented developers like Crate and Runic. Like most of you, it has been one of my favorite genres since Diablo 1.

[Scryer]

New game-play trailer revealed, watch it in 720 HD mode, it looks great!

http://www.torchlight2game.com/

[Sacred]

I'm not that fond of the graphical style personally, but it will do.
Adding the outdoor environments makes this a must buy for me.
Hopefully they've learned alot from TL and listened to the players so it will be much improved. I'm quite sure they have. Looking forward to it :)

[Sile]

Yeah, outdoor environments & MP will make this game more entertaining for sure.

[jamesL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?fmt=22&v=ejqCZw4Mua4#t=0m47s

trailer for TL 2 for gamescom in germany, august 18, 2010

http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14487&start=20#p122964
I'm sure some full-daylight footage will make it's way out. We've got some nice and gloomy outdoor regions as well that will be up at Gamescom. This footage is actually already getting old - lots of new stuff going in all the time. None of the skill fx in this footage really resemble how they will look in the end ( or even how they look right now ). We'll be focusing on making them look powerful without turning the screen white with particle overdraw.

[heron]

That new video brings back memory of mythos during beta testing.
The weather fx looks great, cannot wait to see more footage!

[yerkyerk]

They have increased the view distance a great deal also, right? Looking good.

[Kardiophylax]

Looking good considering they still have quite a bit of time before their 2011 release. It looks like there are at least 2 new tilesets on display in the videos. If all of the new tilesets can be combined with the old tilesets for modding purposes, and I suspect they can, then the realm of possibilities opens up quite a bit.

[Kardiophylax]

I don't think anyone posted this yet. Some additional gameplay footage from Gamestar.de for anyone interested.

http://www.gamestar.de/index.cfm?pid=1589&pk=14591

[Sile]

I don't think anyone posted this yet. Some additional gameplay footage from Gamestar.de for anyone interested.

http://www.gamestar.de/index.cfm?pid=1589&pk=14591

Aww poor guy was trying to dual wield guns but one of them needed him to be a higher level. nub.

[heron]

From the character creation screen, TL2 starting to look a lot like TF2 art style.

[Kefkaesque]

Looking forward to this one a lot. Torchlight was a great little game and actually makes a very interesting counterpoint to TQ.

Titan Quest was certainly a game with a lot more options and content, but it had it's fair share of problems. It was highly repetitive, even for an ARPG, and had almost no memorable fights, story elements or characters. I can't even recall how much time I spent running through plain old Greek fields killing plain old Greek Satyrs. The story was mostly "Oh no, a Telkine" "Oh no, ANOTHER Telkine" "Oh no, A THIRD TELKINE! SHOCK!" This is fairly disappointing to me. I kinda wish they went nuts with the mythological setting. Everything that happened in Titan Quest felt very sterile and detached.

I know having a deep and complex story isn't too necessary to this kind of game, but the gameplay is repetitive enough that you need to mix it up to keep it interesting. It's really the strong fundamentals and wide variety of class combination that keeps bringing me back to Titan Quest.

Ultimately, Titan Quest was like a blob of delicious peanut butter spread out a little too thinly over a cracker that's too big.

Torchlight is the opposite. The content is much less, but it's much more efficiently paced, and it oozes with style. All the monsters had unique animations that gave them personality, and while the story wasn't anything stellar, it was enough to make things a bit more interesting. The soundtrack was always moody and atmospheric and the game about introducing new areas and enemies.

[Renevent]

Your point about story is very interesting...personally I think it's off though. You say TQ is pretty much "look telkine, look an other, ect" but what is Torchlight's story? Ember sucks go find the source?

Maybe you didn't read any of the story in TQ but honestly it had twice the depth of Torchlight's story.

I also thought TQ had way better bosses, though perhaps the normal enemies in Torchlight had more personality.

[Kefkaesque]

Perhaps complaining about the story was wrong, but rather the presentation of the story.

Titan Quest really had no villains (The Telkines were more obstacles than actual villains with any personality) and no characters worth mentioning.

[Renevent]

Typhon? Hades?

Regarding presentation do you think TL's bosses received more face time and better presentation? To be honest I think it got even less than TQ...

Though I guess that mage in TL was a present a bit more in the game...kinda showing up at key intervals and giving a little dialog.

In that respect I guess I can understand what you are saying. In TQ a lot of the back story/motivation/ect were given by reading quest panels and talking to villagers...maybe they need to do a better job with that for Grim Dawn.

[Malpheas]

He does have a kind of point, though. It wasn't a lot of meeting a boss, rather, chasing something throughout the entire game only to be told "Your princess isn't here, Mario, she's in another castle".

You knew you were behind, there was no way you were going to catch up, Typhon was the end boss by default in TQ.

However, there was story; and better than TL, imo.

[alexei]

Max Scheafer respectfully believes that Torchlight 3 could make it before Diablo 3 arrive. Lol! Read this (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/24/torchlight-3-out-before-diablo-3-runic-ceo-hypothesizes/).

[heron]

I'm hoping D3 hit next march, it will be very interesting to see how much it will impact the sales of TL2, GD, DS3, GW2, etc.

[Kardiophylax]

D3 in March? I doubt that will happen. Blizzard has a way of progressing... and its very very slowly. I'm going to predict late 2011 at the earliest, but I hope I'm wrong.

As for Torchlight 2 and 3, sounds good to me I just hope they don't make Torchlight 2 a short game in anticipation of releasing a third. With everything I've heard about free to play MMOs though, I'm just glad they are releasing something and pushing that project back. I think the Torchlight MMO is just not going to be something I'd enjoy.

[ASYLUM101]

I'm going to predict late 2011 at the earliest, but I hope I'm wrong.


You are wrong, the release date is 2012...December....

[Kardiophylax]

You are wrong, the release date is 2012...December....

Anything after late 2011 would be included in my range of potential release dates. :p

[mamba]

Max Scheafer respectfully believes that Torchlight 3 could make it before Diablo 3 arrive. Lol! Read this (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/24/torchlight-3-out-before-diablo-3-runic-ceo-hypothesizes/).

If 3 follows as fast after 2 as that did after 1, I think chances are better than 50% (more like 90%) of T3 being there before D3.

[yerkyerk]

Well, Runic didn't do much with Torchlight, they just brought it out and mostly abandoned it afterwards. Since they already have most of what they need to create a game they already created previously within a year, it doesn't seem to be a really hard task. Blizzard will hopefully (and very likely) give more support after they ship Diablo 3.

And I can't say I really see Torchlight 2 as the sequel, more of an upgraded Torchlight 1 (comparable to Doom 1 and Doom 2, UFO 1 and UFO 2, L4D and L4D2).

I was hoping for more content patches. At any rate, I hope they bring out content patches and expansions for Torchlight 2, rather than going straight for Torchlight 3.

[Kardiophylax]

I was hoping for more content patches. At any rate, I hope they bring out content patches and expansions for Torchlight 2, rather than going straight for Torchlight 3.

I agree. It's less about the cost (for me, anyway) and more about having to start all over again and lose everything you have. I'd rather see additional DLC style content so that your characters can be continued and modders can integrate new features into existing mods.

I believe this is how Grim Dawn's content will be handled, although which such a small team, I'm not sure how fast Crate will be releasing new content. Although it remains to be seen which game comes out with more initial content, because as of right now we've only seem a few limited monsters and very little in the way of structures in GD.

[Sacred]

New interview with the Runic guys http://www.cynicalbrit.com/news/torchlight-2-interview-podcast/

[Kardiophylax]

Exclusive info obtained by Jerich of the Runic Games Fansite while attending PAX:

http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/content.php?1131-Jerich-s-PAX-Exclusive!

The feature I am most excited about is this one:


There is one huge new feature for Character based Modding that will likely be hugely significant:
Modders now have the ability to add custom statistics.
These can be visible or invisible and can be an integer, floating point number or string.


Being able to add tracking variables that are attached to the character and tie them into the TorchED logic system will be an amazingly powerful thing. It should allow for more intricate quests and branching paths/story lines based on player choices. Since their Logic Editor is pretty straight forward, I imagine they will be pretty seamless to use as well.


I am hoping Grim Dawn's token system and the faction rep. system they've hinted at it will be as flexible as TorchED's is shaping up to be. I'd rather use the Grim Dawn world editor tool then the Torchlight tile system (The TQ world editor truly is a wonderful tool), but I found the Torchlight logic editor to be much easier to use than TQ's art manager.